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Member 7989122 wrote: The same software also won a first prize for the largest struct definition: approx 8300 lines. If you print it out, 72 lines to the page, that one type defintion would fill a book of 120 pages. True enough: This wasn't one flat set of 8300 fields, but a variant structure defining a protocol element, with a few common header fields followed by all the different variants depending on the function code in the header. Nevertheless, in my eyes this is crazy. ... But then, almost every time I see code relating to telephone switches, I say "This is crazy". I suppose it is just a completely different approach to programming.
I suppose that in a language such as C++, you would have a set of classes, all derived from the same base class, with appropriate serializers for I/O. Given that many of these protocols were implemented in C, I don't see how else they could have done.
Freedom is the freedom to say that two plus two make four. If that is granted, all else follows.
-- 6079 Smith W.
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System 12 is coded in CHILL, which is actually a well designed language. Both designed, not just "well, it just turned out that way", and well - it is not over-designed. It is complete with exception handling and threading mechanisms, with synchronization and data protection, designed into the language from the very beginning. It is a pity that it was never marketed outside the telecom business. Compared to Ada, which appeared at the same time, CHILL is elegant and lightweight, Ada is an elephant in a mudhole. Oh well; CHILL is dead now. There is nothing to do about that.
The disadvantage of having a couple hundred classes is that you have all the red tape repeated a couple hundred times. You probably have a couple hundred files. If you need to search for some member name (or whatever), you have to do a couple hundred searches (of course that can be automated, but still!) I know programmers who make a separate source file for each function, no matter how small the function. Fifty to hundred lines of comments, twenty lines of red tape (defining of environment etc.) followed by a five to ten code lines function. "Grasping the big picture" is almost impossible!
I prefer something in the middle between. That 8300 lines struct is way over my limits, but I like to have closely related things gathered together in one unit (such as in one source file).
Re. serializers: I didn't see this struct myself, but I guess that it was designed something like the classic Sun XDR "External Data Representation": Essentially, serialization is done by reading out RAM octet by octed according to how Sun stored the C struct in a Sparc based computer. Serializing was practically a no-op - which Sun used for all it was worth in comparisons with other standard encodings, such as BER. Doing nothing is a lot faster than doing something, no matter how fast that "something" is ...
Probably, the CHILL struct representation in System 12 memory was an exact image of the octet sequence to be transmitted. You probably couldn't do that in C++; you would require active serializer code. In C you could - but I wouldn't trust it for more than one C compiler at a time; there are so many vaguely "defined" elements in the language, or explicitly not defined but "implmenentation defined". CHILL, as a (telecom exchange) system programming language, had the facilities for defining exact memory layout.
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I sit corrected. 
In the early 2000s, I worked in the cellular phone world. The GSM stack that we used was written in C.
Freedom is the freedom to say that two plus two make four. If that is granted, all else follows.
-- 6079 Smith W.
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Super Lloyd wrote: typical web developer code
I'm a web developer - too - for decades and never seen code like that...
"The greatest enemy of knowledge is not ignorance, it is the illusion of knowledge". Stephen Hawking, 1942- 2018
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I had a cow worker like that, not web developement and self taught. Every attribute was const, no setters and overly long constructor.
He also used (in C++) templates following a "guru" book, the best he did was using templates and then specializing every single possible instance of that template. Every single one.
GCS d--(d+) s-/++ a C++++ U+++ P- L+@ E-- W++ N+ o+ K- w+++ O? M-- V? PS+ PE- Y+ PGP t+ 5? X R+++ tv-- b+(+++) DI+++ D++ G e++ h--- r+++ y+++* Weapons extension: ma- k++ F+2 X
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They close the roads...
First (and maybe last) snow...[^]
"The greatest enemy of knowledge is not ignorance, it is the illusion of knowledge". Stephen Hawking, 1942- 2018
modified 16-Jan-19 13:20pm.
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Salt and sand should be enough to keep the roads open.
Bastard Programmer from Hell 
If you can't read my code, try converting it here[^]
"If you just follow the bacon Eddy, wherever it leads you, then you won't have to think about politics." -- Some Bell.
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Please!! Do not encourage them! That porridge of salt and snow, which turns into a thick over-salted snow soup, is just terrible to drive or walk in. And it eats up your car by corrosion within a few years.
I'd much rather have white, snowy roads. Get yourself studded winter tires, or if you go for the soft-rubber non-studded winter tires, get chains for use under extreme conditions.
I had to showel away about 30 cm of snow to get my car out this morning. Temperatures have stayed at -12 C to -8 C since the snow fell, so it was dry and lightweight. Took me less than fifteen minutes to showel my driveway, all by hand. Would have been more work to get the snowblower out and to make it start
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Member 7989122 wrote: Get yourself studded winter tires, or if you go for the soft-rubber non-studded winter tires, get chains for use under extreme conditions.
I don't have a drivers-license. Should I put chains under my shoes?
Bastard Programmer from Hell
If you can't read my code, try converting it here[^]
"If you just follow the bacon Eddy, wherever it leads you, then you won't have to think about politics." -- Some Bell.
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We're not on the Northpole, and neither is TS
Simple shoes with decent profile.
Bastard Programmer from Hell
If you can't read my code, try converting it here[^]
"If you just follow the bacon Eddy, wherever it leads you, then you won't have to think about politics." -- Some Bell.
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Bavaira, south Germany, had a meter and a half of snow quite recently, if I remember the news reports right. That is quite far from the north pole.
I am living about 600 km south of the Polar Circle - not quite as far from the North Pole, only about 3000 km. Yet, we know that you must learn to master winter conditions. We see a huge number of trucks coming across the border, driven by people who have not learned it. Practically every day at winter time, the newspapers tell about two or three trucks that has ended up in the ditch. Practically all of the drivers (and transport companies owning the trucks) are foreigners. Last week, traffic authorities checked trucks coming to one of the customs points at the border: Half of them were not allowed to enter the country at all - they did not have tires suited for driving on winter roads.
Every year there is a new selection of YouTube videos showing how cars are sliding around like curling stones when there is a snowfall - mostly from the US. To any Norwegian car driver, it is very obvious that those drivers don't have a clue about how to behave when it is slippery. Here, to get a driving license, an ice driving course is mandatory. (In summer, they use a mixture of oil and water to make the execrcize lanes as slippery as wet ice.)
You may say: I don't need that; I live far from the North Pole. Fair enough. But if you come up here in winter, please do not drive a car (even if you have a driving license). Especially not as a truck driver!
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That's more south than I live; we haven't seen much snow in years here.
Member 7989122 wrote: We see a huge number of trucks coming across the border, driven by people who have not learned it.
Not just trucks; there's a lot of people who I refuse to drive with. Rain and leaves can be equally dangerous as fresh ice.
Member 7989122 wrote: To any Norwegian car driver, it is very obvious that those drivers don't have a clue about how to behave when it is slippery.
The roads here are salted and peppered as soon snow threathens to fall; most mainroads will be open, and winter-tires aren't mandatory. Which means most drivers don't have them (saves money), and are then surprised by how the car reacts if they break on a road that hasn't been salted.
Or they cross the border into Germany here for cheap groceries, and get fined for having summer-tires 
Bastard Programmer from Hell
If you can't read my code, try converting it here[^]
"If you just follow the bacon Eddy, wherever it leads you, then you won't have to think about politics." -- Some Bell.
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Putting sand or salt on the road is uneconomical in Israel - the snow falls in limited areas, and it's usually gone in less than a day.
There was a very bad winter a few years ago when snow actually remained on the ground for a few days, AND the power cut out in parts of Jerusalem for a couple of days. I've lived in Israel for 50 years, and can't remember it ever happening before.
Freedom is the freedom to say that two plus two make four. If that is granted, all else follows.
-- 6079 Smith W.
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It happened in 2013 last time and in 1991 before... And my kids actually think it is a GOOD thing that the snow stays on...
By the way - the last week snow gave them a day and a half off-school, even it has gone within 12 hours...
"The greatest enemy of knowledge is not ignorance, it is the illusion of knowledge". Stephen Hawking, 1942- 2018
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Quote: Do you know what happening if there is 5 cm of snow?
You Skitch[^] of course!
"the debugger doesn't tell me anything because this code compiles just fine" - random QA comment
"Facebook is where you tell lies to your friends. Twitter is where you tell the truth to strangers." - chriselst
"I don't drink any more... then again, I don't drink any less." - Mike Mullikins uncle
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Back in Massachusetts (in the 70s) that was called "mushing", but I never saw anyone actually try it.
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We used to have contests on who could hang on the longest, our street was about a 5 block stretch, some rode it the whole way. For me it was the late 70's when the streets were covered with snow for weeks on end (northern Illinois).
"the debugger doesn't tell me anything because this code compiles just fine" - random QA comment
"Facebook is where you tell lies to your friends. Twitter is where you tell the truth to strangers." - chriselst
"I don't drink any more... then again, I don't drink any less." - Mike Mullikins uncle
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Here in Belgium they do not immediate close the roads but 10 cm of snow is enough to grind down the whole country to a halt, you guys being even less used to snow a mere 5 cm probably achieves the same.
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We had a good load of snow here every day in the last two weeks. The result? I got to work faster beacause all who can't drive were too afraid to. And today, when we had sun and blue skies? All the incompetent are back and do their best to stand in everybody else's way.
To be honest, when I learned to drive, I was just as helpless. Then I took part in a driver training course and learned how to drive on snow and never had a problem ever since. In fact, I like driving on snow and try to refresh my skills and see how the car reacts on an empty parking lot at the first snow every winter. And have some fun with pirouettes and drifting to see how far my tires will let me go.
I have lived with several Zen masters - all of them were cats.
His last invention was an evil Lasagna. It didn't kill anyone, and it actually tasted pretty good.
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I used to ride motorcycles on snow. On ice. In blizzards (though visibility wasn't much fun).
Big motorcycles - 1100 v-twins, mostly.
It wasn't a problem (once I got the idea of electric heated gloves then heated handlebar grips anyway).
But when you watch a car try to overtake you and spin off into the weeds because you know you're on ice (because the tires have gone quiet) and he doesn't think about it you have to wonder where most people find their licences. Christmas crackers, I always assumed.
Sent from my Amstrad PC 1640
Never throw anything away, Griff
Bad command or file name. Bad, bad command! Sit! Stay! Staaaay...
AntiTwitter: @DalekDave is now a follower!
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Quote: Yippie yi ooh
Yippie yi yay
Ghost riders in the sky
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You become a hairy biker ?
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Kornfeld Eliyahu Peter wrote: They close the roads...
Ah, minor countries closing roads because of snow. Sometimes i'd love if they do here but then we'd need like 4 m or more 
Rules for the FOSW ![ ^]
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I cleaned my car off and got into the office around the normal time this morning.
Did you ever see history portrayed as an old man with a wise brow and pulseless heart, weighing all things in the balance of reason?
Is not rather the genius of history like an eternal, imploring maiden, full of fire, with a burning heart and flaming soul, humanly warm and humanly beautiful?
--Zachris Topelius
Training a telescope on one’s own belly button will only reveal lint. You like that? You go right on staring at it. I prefer looking at galaxies.
-- Sarah Hoyt
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