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OS, Browser and Screen Size Paul Watson5-Sep-01 0:30 Paul Watson 5-Sep-01 0:30  Lets face it, web developers have it the hardest when it comes to developing for a wide audience. Generally all our sites have to work on the following: • Internet Explorer 4.0 for Windows 95/98/ME/2000/XP • Internet Explorer 4.01 for Windows 95/98/ME/2000/XP • Internet Explorer 5.0 for Windows 95/98/ME/2000/XP • Internet Explorer 5.5 for Windows 98/ME/2000/XP • Internet Explorer 5.0 for Mac OS 8+ • Internet Explorer 4.5 for Mac OS 8+ • Netscape 4.06 for Windows 95/98/ME/2000/XP • Netscape 4.51 for Windows 95/98/ME/2000/XP • Netscape 4.61 for Windows 95/98/ME/2000/XP • Netscape 4.73 for Windows 95/98/ME/2000/XP • Netscape 4.75 for Windows 95/98/ME/2000/XP • Netscape 6 (Second Release) for Windows 95/98/ME/2000/XP • Netscape 6.01 for Mac OS 8+ • Netscape 4.75 for Mac OS 8+ • Netscape 4.08 for Mac OS 8+ • Netscape 4.6 for Mac OS 8+ and believe me, Netscape is a... female dog! You may notice that Linux is not even in that list and of course other browsers such as Opera are not even mentioned... the sooner browser developers get their act together the sooner we can focus more on developing the site and less time fixing layout bugs in Netscape. FYI: Netscape 6.01 is actually pretty cool to develop for, it is a lot more inline with IE development and is a breath of fresh air from the Netscape gang. It still bites to use in comparison to IE though Now all I need to do is download IE 6.0 and find out how to fix all the issues it throws up... *groan* regards, Paul Watson Cape Town, South Africa e: paulmwatson@email.com w: vergen.org Re: OS, Browser and Screen Size Chris Maunder6-Sep-01 16:21 Chris Maunder 6-Sep-01 16:21  Ah - someone who understands! For me, Netscape 4.X is merely a case of getting it to display. If it's readable, it's fine. Netscape 6 is a lot nicer to work with, but is still so far behind IE that it also gets relegated to maintainence mode development only. cheers, Chris Maunder (CodeProject) Re: OS, Browser and Screen Size Paul Watson6-Sep-01 22:42 Paul Watson 6-Sep-01 22:42  Chris, I sympathise. While CP users often give you hell on a stick about tiny bugs in the CP layout (guys relax, if it is one pixel out it does not kill the content! ) we tend to attract anal-retentive Clients who feel that one-pixel or a hundred pixels, it must be perfect in every browser. It has really pushed our browser-compatibility skills to the limit but it also adds on literally 20% to 30% on a project. That is serious money just so that Netscape users can see the little green dot above the little red dot in the bottom right (as an example). IE has some really powerful, and standards compliant!, features which make for useful and function rich web-apps. However most of the time we have to dumb-down our sites to cater for the Netscape market. Occasionally a client is willing to pay for a "rich IE version" and also a "dumb Netscape version" site, but only rarely. regards, Paul Watson Cape Town, South Africa e: paulmwatson@email.com w: vergen.org Re: OS, Browser and Screen Size Nikhil Dabas9-Sep-01 7:53 Nikhil Dabas 9-Sep-01 7:53  What about IE for Unix? Is it just as good? "A surprise to be sure, but a welcome one." - Senator Palpatine Re: OS, Browser and Screen Size Paul Watson9-Sep-01 8:15 Paul Watson 9-Sep-01 8:15  ..."What about IE for Unix? Is it just as good? "A surprise to be sure, but a welcome one." "... There is such a thing? Oh, lol, colour me ignorant then. However if there is such a thing then I am pretty sure we still wouldn't include it in our list. I can't imagine IE for Unix has a very big market share Definitley a surprise, not sure about the welcome bit.. regards, Paul Watson Cape Town, South Africa e: paulmwatson@email.com w: vergen.org Re: OS, Browser and Screen Size Nikhil Dabas9-Sep-01 8:33 Nikhil Dabas 9-Sep-01 8:33  You really are an ignoramous - see any page in the MSDN Library on some DHTML stuff - eg. The addBehavior method and there is an applies to section with platform as Unix... No market share, but definitely better than Netscape or Lynx or something... "A surprise to be sure, but a welcome one." - Senator Palpatine Re: OS, Browser and Screen Size Paul Watson9-Sep-01 8:59 Paul Watson 9-Sep-01 8:59  Woah, Nikhil, relax ok? I don't deserve to be lectured to nor called an ignoramous. These forums are meant for constructive discussions and enlightenment, not the bringing down of individuals or groups. I kept my reply good natured, I would appreciate it if you did the same. ..."No market share, but definitely better than Netscape or Lynx or something..."... I doubt that very, very much. IE on Unix can hardly be even one percent and if you are in some round about fashion trying to imply just because Mac OS X is now Unix based then realise that IE on Mac (8,9 or X) would not be considered IE for Unix. Netscape market share is still in the high teens and some sources still credit it at 23%. Lynx to has a very low market share. Also websites are designed and coded to work for specific target audiences. Most of our sites are e-commerce or marketing and relations based. Therefore the target audience is Joe Public, show me how many Joe Publics run Unix on their home systems. Give me a good market share and I will put IE for Unix on our list. Till then... no thanks. regards, Paul Watson Cape Town, South Africa e: paulmwatson@email.com w: vergen.org Re: OS, Browser and Screen Size Nikhil Dabas9-Sep-01 10:33 Nikhil Dabas 9-Sep-01 10:33  Uh, sorry, I didn't realise I was lecturing you or calling you names. My point was that such an oddity does exist, and it's a different thing from the OS X version. Sorry. "A surprise to be sure, but a welcome one." - Senator Palpatine 30+?????? Who are these people anyway??? Farhan Noor Qureshi4-Sep-01 9:55 Farhan Noor Qureshi 4-Sep-01 9:55  Who are these people who claim that they target 30+ versions??? And how do they achieve this??? Am I smelling JavaTM here??? If they think that by using JavaTM they target 30+ versions of different Oses then I must say that they *do not* know what does it mean by having differences in different versions. Farhan Noor Qureshi Windows NT 4 before SP3 David Wulff3-Sep-01 16:12 David Wulff 3-Sep-01 16:12  I'm just curious as to what the major change was in Windows NT 4 SP3 and later. Wherever you see Windows NT 4 supported, it is always SP3 or later. David Wulff dwulff@battleaxesoftware.com P.S. Yes it's true, i've never used NT 4 directly. I went straight from Windows 3.1 to Windows 2000 . Maybe that's why I've had such good expereinces with Windows (i.e. skipping '95 and '98 - though I have used them both at home for gaming)? i like NT 4 Chris Losinger4-Sep-01 5:02 Chris Losinger 4-Sep-01 5:02  it doesn't crash like Win9x and it doesn't cause my mouse pointer to disappear like Win2K. what more could i ask for ? -c ------------------------------ Smaller Animals Software, Inc. http://www.smalleranimals.com Re: Windows NT 4 before SP3 Mike Player4-Sep-01 6:02 Mike Player 4-Sep-01 6:02  The maximum number of methods/properties on a COM interface went from something very small (about 7 I think) to something more reasonable (in the order of 1024) Re: Windows NT 4 before SP3 Michael Dunn4-Sep-01 22:09 Michael Dunn 4-Sep-01 22:09  The original NT 4 had a couple of bugs that could cause data corruption; SP 1 came out really quickly. SP 2 had a bug that would blue-screen the system if you had anti-virus software running and inserted a CD. So SP 3 is really the earliest viable version. --Mike-- http://home.inreach.com/mdunn/ You are the weakest link, GOODBYE! Re: Windows NT 4 before SP3 Andrew Peace7-Sep-01 9:24 Andrew Peace 7-Sep-01 9:24  SP 2 had a bug that would blue-screen the system if you had anti-virus software running and inserted a CD Oops !! > Andrew     "Do you like my mask, it raises the dead...!"     -- Buffy (season 3, Giles) Is a browser an OS... Chris Losinger3-Sep-01 6:02 Chris Losinger 3-Sep-01 6:02  ..for a web app? i'm currently working on a web app that's been lucky enough to get approval to target IE 5.5 and up. so, in our case, IE 5.5 is the target platform, not windows (because IE can run on multiple OS'es). -c ------------------------------ Smaller Animals Software, Inc. http://www.smalleranimals.com Re: Is a browser an OS... Carlos Antollini3-Sep-01 10:35 Carlos Antollini 3-Sep-01 10:35  I think that IE is not a OS, but is a Platform, And Don't forget the netscape. Cheers!!!! Carlos Antollini. Re: Is a browser an OS... Not Active3-Sep-01 12:42 Not Active 3-Sep-01 12:42  If your from the US Justice Dept. the browser is a seperate pice that can't be placed in the OS. If your from Microsoft, the browser is the OS. If your from AOL/Netscape you just wish you had something that worked. Re: Is a browser an OS... Matt.W.4-Sep-01 17:52 Matt.W. 4-Sep-01 17:52  What does the DoJ now about OSs? Diddly Squat. Matt ------ Accept that some days you are the pigeon and some days the statue. Re: Is a browser an OS... Tim Smith3-Sep-01 13:43 Tim Smith 3-Sep-01 13:43  I remember when I tried to write a minor browser java app. Depending on the browser, there were huge differences. I say IE and Netscape are different platforms. Tim Smith Descartes Systems Sciences, Inc. The List Chris Maunder3-Sep-01 2:57 Chris Maunder 3-Sep-01 2:57  I'm hoping someone can come up with a definitive list of OS's that a typical 'Windows' developer actually targets. cheers, Chris Maunder (CodeProject) Re: The List Oz Solomon3-Sep-01 3:31 Oz Solomon 3-Sep-01 3:31  Seems to me that the options are not granular enough. How about a checkbox survey instead: Our software must run on (and we support it on): [ ] Win 95 [ ] Win 98 [ ] Win ME [ ] Win NT <4 [ ] Win NT 4 (any SP) [ ] Win 2K (any SP) [ ] Win XP [ ] Linux 6.x [ ] Linux 7 [ ] Linux 7.1 [ ] Solaris 7 [ ] Solaris 8 [ ] Other UNIX/Linux/Solaris [ ] Other - Embedded [ ] Other - General I think that should about cover it, and let us know what everyone's developing for. -Oz --- Grab WndTabs from http://www.wndtabs.com to make your VC++ experience that much more comfortable... Re: The List Oz Solomon3-Sep-01 3:32 Oz Solomon 3-Sep-01 3:32  Opps - let's not forget Max OS 9, and OS X... -Oz --- Grab WndTabs from http://www.wndtabs.com to make your VC++ experience that much more comfortable... Re: The List Anna-Jayne Metcalfe3-Sep-01 3:36 Anna-Jayne Metcalfe 3-Sep-01 3:36  Better include the Amiga too, or Christian might get unhappy! Andy Metcalfe - Sonardyne International Ltd (andy.metcalfe@lineone.net) http://www.resorg.co.uk "Lots of people want to ride with you in the limo, but what you want is someone who will take the bus with you when the limo breaks down." Show me the $$ [Was: The List] Oz Solomon3-Sep-01 3:43 Oz Solomon 3-Sep-01 3:43  My thinking: stick to the stuff that actually pays our employers' (or our own) bills... -Oz --- Grab WndTabs from http://www.wndtabs.com to make your VC++ experience that much more comfortable... Re: Show me the $$ [Was: The List] Anna-Jayne Metcalfe3-Sep-01 3:48 Anna-Jayne Metcalfe 3-Sep-01 3:48  lol. Actually, I was just wondering how long it would take to provoke a response from our very own Top Poster...;) Andy Metcalfe - Sonardyne International Ltd (andy.metcalfe@lineone.net) http://www.resorg.co.uk "Lots of people want to ride with you in the limo, but what you want is someone who will take the bus with you when the limo breaks down."

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