|
There is a 'system' that I have seen 'Big Clive' use that gets away from the really nasty Ferric Chloride and will do single or double sided boards. It uses used Sodium Carbonate rather than anything too nasty. That desktop printer, gimme! 
|
|
|
|
|
Here is another one: BotFactory Squink - Desktop PCB Printer[^]
I have lived with several Zen masters - all of them were cats.
His last invention was an evil Lasagna. It didn't kill anyone, and it actually tasted pretty good.
|
|
|
|
|
And another, that doesn't use any chemicals: Cirqoid[^]
Bad command or file name. Bad, bad command! Sit! Stay! Staaaay...
AntiTwitter: @DalekDave is now a follower!
|
|
|
|
|
That's the opposite approach. Instead of printing something onto pure epoxy, this is a CNC milling machine that carves the PCB out of a metal coated epoxy board.
Edit: The fine powder that remains after milling or sawing epoxy also is not said to be very healthy.
I have lived with several Zen masters - all of them were cats.
His last invention was an evil Lasagna. It didn't kill anyone, and it actually tasted pretty good.
|
|
|
|
|
glennPattonWork wrote: Sodium Carbonate rather than anything too nasty
Splutters into his coffee! 
I take you you've never got caustic soda on your hands?
Bad command or file name. Bad, bad command! Sit! Stay! Staaaay...
AntiTwitter: @DalekDave is now a follower!
|
|
|
|
|
|
I have, but you can use washing crystals from the super market! I was a bit shocked when I saw it. PCB's made from a nail polish gadget & washing crystals eating through copper!!
|
|
|
|
|
No, PCB's are the best way to go - especially for prototypes. Too many other factors that could need attention, you don't need the lack of reliability that wire wrap brings as well.
Trouble is as you say, not cheap - and unless you pay extra generally not quick either. And I'f not seen a prototype PCB manufacture machine for less tan around €2,000 ... You need a lot of prototypes for that! 
Bad command or file name. Bad, bad command! Sit! Stay! Staaaay...
AntiTwitter: @DalekDave is now a follower!
|
|
|
|
|
OriginalGriff wrote: Too many other factors that could need attention,
Like the few bugs I threw out of one of my schematics last night? I am going to go the opposite direction and first test everything on breadboards. It must not be all at once, just the contents of one board at a time. Once I have the basic computer running, I can connect its bus to the breadboard with a ribbon cable. This way the whole thing will have reached a reasonable maturity before I must invest in PCBs.
I have lived with several Zen masters - all of them were cats.
His last invention was an evil Lasagna. It didn't kill anyone, and it actually tasted pretty good.
|
|
|
|
|
Hmmm, at times yes, at times no. One set of things I worked on would have revealed the fact the address lines were reversed and had be swapped manually (read scapel, exacto blade, microscope & steady hand). Why this couldn't be cured in the initial run it went to production (may be as the board were certified and would need to be re-certified, cost). My experience with wire wrap is it's not to bad once you have checked the board, you can solder them for added confidence (well I did!)
|
|
|
|
|
Just use a 3D printer with conductive materials (although only able to create 2D circuits.)
For bonus credit use one with two heads, one conductive, one non-conductive and you can build up a 3D circuit.
|
|
|
|
|
YOu really don't see the tiny flaw in your idea?
I have lived with several Zen masters - all of them were cats.
His last invention was an evil Lasagna. It didn't kill anyone, and it actually tasted pretty good.
|
|
|
|
|
The power of wire wrapping was demonstrated really well to me about thirty years ago. We had a computer room full of DEC VAXes and a whole bunch of other minicomputers of the day. We were using one of them to communicate to RTUs using the Modbus protocol. Unfortunately, we were using a third-party driver that used the brute force technique to calculate the CRC for each transmission packet and that was bringing the VAX to its knees. After a some complaints from us, and apparently a few others, the people at DEC decided to incorporate the CRC calculation into the instruction set of the processor. Back then, CPUs were far more primitive than today and the fastest PC was at 12MHz. The CPU of the VAX resided on one big circuit board that was roughly 2ft by 2ft - or 60cm on a side. Even better, it was a bit-slice machine[^] that used AMD chips and the entire circuit board was wire-wrapped. Today, if a new instruction was added it would require a microcode update of the processor. For that VAX, a technician came to our facility and proceeded to modify some of the wire wraps on the circuit board. I was astounded to watch that happen. When he was done, we found that the new instruction made a huge difference and the CPU had some breathing room again.
FWIW, this particular VAX was used to control some pipelines in the Chicago area. It monitored a whole bunch of RTUs along its path, several dozen of them actually, and that new instruction was very helpful.
Anyway, wire wrapping is pretty cool.
|
|
|
|
|
Me and two guys that own GT350's all drove our cars to work today (in recognition of "Take Your Beast to Work Day").
As we got off the elevator, one of the women in the office was waiting for us. She said, "I knew it was you guys - the testosterone level increased about 400% just before the elevator doors opened."
One of the guys said, "But there's only three of us - how could the increase be that high?"
She replied, "John is responsible for at least 200% of it."
Recognize, bitches... 
".45 ACP - because shooting twice is just silly" - JSOP, 2010
-----
You can never have too much ammo - unless you're swimming, or on fire. - JSOP, 2010
-----
When you pry the gun from my cold dead hands, be careful - the barrel will be very hot. - JSOP, 2013
|
|
|
|
|
Hang around the elevator waiting for a group of women and then declare the level of estrogen just increased 400%. See if you can get to your desired floor before they make a complaint and you're sacked.
|
|
|
|
|
Actually, that would be a more appropriate place to note an increase in testosterone levels. Also, Adrenalin, blood pressure.
All sorts of things are liable to rise . . .
| Ravings en masse^ |
|---|
| "The difference between genius and stupidity is that genius has its limits." - Albert Einstein | | "If you are searching for perfection in others, then you seek disappointment. If you are seek perfection in yourself, then you will find failure." - Balboos HaGadol Mar 2010 |
|
|
|
|
|
In the places we usually all work, a herd of pink unicorns sooner comes out of the elevater than any women. That's why some work themselves to death[^]: To avoid spending too much time with their old dragon at home.
I have lived with several Zen masters - all of them were cats.
His last invention was an evil Lasagna. It didn't kill anyone, and it actually tasted pretty good.
|
|
|
|
|
Are you quite sure she's not talking about her own testosterone levels?
| Ravings en masse^ |
|---|
| "The difference between genius and stupidity is that genius has its limits." - Albert Einstein | | "If you are searching for perfection in others, then you seek disappointment. If you are seek perfection in yourself, then you will find failure." - Balboos HaGadol Mar 2010 |
|
|
|
|
|
She's pretty hot - it doesn't appear to me that she has any testosterone at all.
".45 ACP - because shooting twice is just silly" - JSOP, 2010
-----
You can never have too much ammo - unless you're swimming, or on fire. - JSOP, 2010
-----
When you pry the gun from my cold dead hands, be careful - the barrel will be very hot. - JSOP, 2013
|
|
|
|
|
Where the scent of the forest meets that of the sea.
(Hooooooooowl!)
| Ravings en masse^ |
|---|
| "The difference between genius and stupidity is that genius has its limits." - Albert Einstein | | "If you are searching for perfection in others, then you seek disappointment. If you are seek perfection in yourself, then you will find failure." - Balboos HaGadol Mar 2010 |
|
|
|
|
|
John Simmons / outlaw programmer wrote: She replied, "John is responsible for at least 200% of it."
"Damn straight!" said John as he slaps her on the ass.
|
|
|
|
|
video or it didn't happen
To err is human to really mess up you need a computer
|
|
|
|
|
|
I also would not really like to be present at a royal wedding.
I have lived with several Zen masters - all of them were cats.
His last invention was an evil Lasagna. It didn't kill anyone, and it actually tasted pretty good.
|
|
|
|
|
Really - who gives a royal ![Elephant | [mastadon]](https://www.codeproject.com/script/Forums/Images/elephant.gif) ?
At least, at long last, they've stopped inbreeding.
| Ravings en masse^ |
|---|
| "The difference between genius and stupidity is that genius has its limits." - Albert Einstein | | "If you are searching for perfection in others, then you seek disappointment. If you are seek perfection in yourself, then you will find failure." - Balboos HaGadol Mar 2010 |
modified 17-May-18 8:45am.
|
|
|
|
General 
News 
Suggestion 
Question 
Bug 
Answer 
Joke 
Praise 
Rant 
Admin 
Submit an article or tip
