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They are trying to make it non-Christian, in order not to offend non-Christians (e.g. Muslims, Hindus etc.). But it is rather ridiculous as very few people of other religions are offended by it. The Rector of our parish usually receives a Christmas card from the local Imam.
There was a performance of the Christmas story on TV (in the UK: BBC Two - Alternativity[^] ) the other night. It was the idea of Banksy and Danny Boyle, and was performed by a mix of Israeli and Palestinian children. The theatre was just near the Walled Off Hotel in Bethlehem.
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Richard MacCutchan wrote: But it is rather ridiculous as very few people of other religions are offended by it.
This, of course, from your comprehensive survey!
Or perhaps these people are just, holding their piece/peace, and pretending it's OK. Anecdotes are, at best, a pathetic dogear. "Some of my best friends . . . " "One of our lawyers . . . "
Well, it's ![Elephant | [mastadon]](https://codeproject.global.ssl.fastly.net/script/Forums/Images/elephant.gif) ing inconsiderate. Or would that that Rector be as happy to receive cards from Satanists flaunting their holidays? Maybe, following your anecdote, he should send some to the local Wiccans !
Want to show holiday spirit? How about considering that Golden Rule? Which, by the way, applies all year round - not just near the end of the fiscal year. Instead of the usual lip-service that will about good will.
| Ravings en masse^ |
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| "The difference between genius and stupidity is that genius has its limits." - Albert Einstein | | "If you are searching for perfection in others, then you seek disappointment. If you are seek perfection in yourself, then you will find failure." - Balboos HaGadol Mar 2010 |
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W∴ Balboos wrote: This, of course, from your comprehensive survey!
Of course, where else?
Not sure what your problem is with the rest of it. Are you really a Freemason?
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Richard MacCutchan wrote: Are you really a Freemason?
I am so taken and accounted . . .
I didn't take exception to all of it. Reacting to, in part, the drum-beat of the religious right wrong.
So, by the first paragraph, you would know I'm not an atheist. And meet in a place that welcomes ALL good men of faith without asking 'which one'.
| Ravings en masse^ |
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| "The difference between genius and stupidity is that genius has its limits." - Albert Einstein | | "If you are searching for perfection in others, then you seek disappointment. If you are seek perfection in yourself, then you will find failure." - Balboos HaGadol Mar 2010 |
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I was not trying to beat any drum, just pointing out that political correctness (IMHO) is a pointless waste of time, and largely an invention of people who do more harm than good.
W∴ Balboos wrote: a place that welcomes ALL good men of faith without asking 'which one'.
I feel the same, worship in a church that welcomes all comers, and I am sorry that not all places of worship are so inclusive.
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A church may welcome all comers - that, I've observed, comparatively universal (but not 100%). I'm not talking about 'the door is open', but rather that no particular deity, or name for deity, is used. That, implicitly and explicitly, is recognizing one religion over another.
Must the creator be named - and thereby call those who don't use that name wrong?
Let's now tie that into a term which, at this point in time, when used by its detractors, is self referential: "Political Correctness" - a political correctness of their own.
As though it were something new?
These have been Masonic principals for centuries. Actually, to frame it in a more common reference. You'd be quite surprised at how many of the "Founding Fathers" of the United States were Freemasons. Their beliefs showed their influence in a short bit of literature known as "The Bill of Rights". There's lots of screaming and yelling about 2nd amendment rights - but look what they chose for the First Amendment:
"Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances."
That sentiment makes a most beautiful card for any time
of the year.
| Ravings en masse^ |
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| "The difference between genius and stupidity is that genius has its limits." - Albert Einstein | | "If you are searching for perfection in others, then you seek disappointment. If you are seek perfection in yourself, then you will find failure." - Balboos HaGadol Mar 2010 |
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You use the elephant icon because the word itself would be banned here.
Did you consider how others might feel about your use of the icon before using it?
So.. Golden Rule - I would that all would have a personal saving relationship with Jesus Christ; there was a time when I didn't, and I am eternally grateful for those that showed kindness to me by telling me about Him.
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Well - to keep it simple - the word (a fricative) doens't offend me at all. It's overuse weakens it but it, like the four-letter expression of a fecal specimen - creates not only expressive language but actual physical release. That little icon is the approved method of said expression in this forum.
I accept it and submit it with equal ease. That is the Golden Rule.
Not walking on eggs - but using one's brain. If I go into a christian church I should expect to see and hear allusions to their deity. That's the rules of that particular Lounge.
When I get a letter in the mail, however, I find it offensive that anyone's religion is on the government issued postage. It's not their business to sponsor religion or any subset of it.
All you need to do is look at theocracies and you can see how that turns out. One man's jihad is another man's crusade.
| Ravings en masse^ |
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| "The difference between genius and stupidity is that genius has its limits." - Albert Einstein | | "If you are searching for perfection in others, then you seek disappointment. If you are seek perfection in yourself, then you will find failure." - Balboos HaGadol Mar 2010 |
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Quote: How about considering that Golden Rule?
1. He who has the gold makes the rules.
2. Do unto others BEFORE they can do it unto you.
User: Technical term used by developers. See Idiot.
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HappyFestivus wrote: It's inconsiderate to wish someone Merry Christmas?
This would seem particular poignant for you.
Perhaps one might stand outside a church at each Equinox and wish them the Joys of Satan's Bounty!
Yeah - that'd fill the bill pretty much, for a start.
Then, of course, send the priest a holiday card on the Soltice[^] or seal the deal[^].
| Ravings en masse^ |
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| "The difference between genius and stupidity is that genius has its limits." - Albert Einstein | | "If you are searching for perfection in others, then you seek disappointment. If you are seek perfection in yourself, then you will find failure." - Balboos HaGadol Mar 2010 |
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December 25th IS Christmas. You can't change that. So, have a happy 25th of December.
If you get offended by someone wishing you Merry Christmas then you should not get out of bed, ever.
There are two kinds of people in the world: those who can extrapolate from incomplete data.
There are only 10 types of people in the world, those who understand binary and those who don't.
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I don't think non-Christians are offended by it - I'm certainly not - but it should be remembered that this was the festive season in Europe long before the Romans invaded and supplanted it with Christmas, so it's hardly unreasonable for people to refer to it in non-Christian terms. If anything, they're merely following tradition by doing so.
98.4% of statistics are made up on the spot.
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PeejayAdams wrote: they're merely following tradition
A tradition that died out more than 1000 years ago.
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Given that so many Christian Christmas traditions are derived from Saxon ones, I would suggest that reports of their death are somewhat exaggerated.
98.4% of statistics are made up on the spot.
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That is a different issue.
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Quote: They are trying to make it non-Christian, in order not to offend non-Christians (e.g. Muslims, Hindus etc.).
I prefer to call it 'inclusive' as the intent has absolutely nothing to do with Christianity.
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I use it since I was little, in a very Christian nation, without specific reasons. Christmas is just a single day - which can be hectic and fairly bad, given that often you meet member of the family for which there are very real reasons you never meet the rest of the year. Holidays on the other hand last usually more, at the very least the day after and usually the entire week if not the two weeks from 25 December to 6 January (Epiphany, it's a national holiday).
So if I want to wish a good "whole period of vacations" instead of a "happy single day that probably you will hate nonetheless" I say "Happy Holidays".
Also, Holidays <= "Holy Days" so there is really nothing non religious in the word itself. "Happy vacations" would be the correct religion-free salute.
GCS d-- s-/++ a- C++++ U+++ P- L+@ E-- W++ N+ o+ K- w+++ O? M-- V? PS+ PE- Y+ PGP t+ 5? X R+++ tv-- b+(+++) DI+++ D++ G e++ h--- ++>+++ y+++* Weapons extension: ma- k++ F+2 X
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If you're white in Singapore [doesn't matter how long you've been there even with people you known for a long time] they ask, "are you going home for Christmas?"
My reply, "yes, I go home every night."
Signature ready for installation. Please Reboot now.
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It's really a matter of being polite. Considerate. Having what one might call the "Holiday Spirit" and thinking of other people and their feelings.
I can't speak for the UK, but in the US, the christian religious fanatics have mobilized and call the use of Happy Holidays as a "War on Xmas". They make a big deal of it and even try to organize boycotts against those businesses who wish ALL of their customers good will.
These self-styled protectors of their faith think that it's their right, privilege, and duty to foist their beliefs upon everyone else . . . then vote to take away their medical care.*
*I suppose, if they die, it will save them a stamp?
| Ravings en masse^ |
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| "The difference between genius and stupidity is that genius has its limits." - Albert Einstein | | "If you are searching for perfection in others, then you seek disappointment. If you are seek perfection in yourself, then you will find failure." - Balboos HaGadol Mar 2010 |
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In Italy Religious Fanatics™ (which are a lot, thanks to the ever annoying presence of a strangely dressed old man right in the middle of our capital) want to ban Halloween because "it's satanist".
GCS d-- s-/++ a- C++++ U+++ P- L+@ E-- W++ N+ o+ K- w+++ O? M-- V? PS+ PE- Y+ PGP t+ 5? X R+++ tv-- b+(+++) DI+++ D++ G e++ h--- ++>+++ y+++* Weapons extension: ma- k++ F+2 X
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W∴ Balboos wrote: being polite. Considerate.
What do you think Merry Christmas actually means? How can "have a good day" possibly offend anyone? It's impossible.
There are two kinds of people in the world: those who can extrapolate from incomplete data.
There are only 10 types of people in the world, those who understand binary and those who don't.
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Look back in the context of the thread.
More than anything else, this is driven by those who are intolerant! It is their offense at the use of "Happy Holiday" - that it's some kind of war on their holiday.
So - getting a little biblical I, answer a fool according to his folly.
Also - check this concept out: look at the word. It is, in fact, quite religious, assuming one is finding delight in a religious service paying homage to a particular deity.
It definitely does not mean "have a good day". So, either you are demeaning it's significance or you ought to say what you mean. No?
| Ravings en masse^ |
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| "The difference between genius and stupidity is that genius has its limits." - Albert Einstein | | "If you are searching for perfection in others, then you seek disappointment. If you are seek perfection in yourself, then you will find failure." - Balboos HaGadol Mar 2010 |
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W∴ Balboos wrote: It is their offense at the use of "Happy Holiday" - that it's some kind of war on their holiday.
No, that isn't the reason. That is one of many ways people are trying to take Christ out of Christmas. It is the attempt to remove Christ from Christmas that is offensive.
W∴ Balboos wrote: It definitely does not mean "have a good day".
Notice you did not answer my question. So, I'll ask again. What does it mean?
There are two kinds of people in the world: those who can extrapolate from incomplete data.
There are only 10 types of people in the world, those who understand binary and those who don't.
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HappyFestivus wrote: That is one of many ways people are trying to take Christ out of Christmas. It is the attempt to remove Christ from Christmas
I couldn't have proved my view more clearly than you just did with your sentence.
It's a rather religious statement . . . or it's not. Make up you mind.
(Or did you just parrot that statement without giving it a thought?)
As for many people who don't recognize that deity - one that is remarkably similar, "historically", to stories of Zeus mating with humans to create "super" offspring. Actually the who thing wreaks of polytheistic idol worship and, from your comment, fanaticism.
| Ravings en masse^ |
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| "The difference between genius and stupidity is that genius has its limits." - Albert Einstein | | "If you are searching for perfection in others, then you seek disappointment. If you are seek perfection in yourself, then you will find failure." - Balboos HaGadol Mar 2010 |
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