Welcome to the Lounge

Ian Bell, #224-Mar-17 16:15

24-Mar-17 16:15

Chuckle, let me take a quick crack at this. You are from the country where the current administration denies human contribution is a major factor in global warming. You are also from the country which is inundated in an avalanche of fake news each and every day. Your country fomented conflict and strife in Ukraine and then claimed the Russians were the aggressors, your country imposes regime change on sovereign countries under patently false pretenses and historically falsifies information in its' support of dictators, theocracies and governments that impose harsh and oppressive measures on it's own people plus oppression and suffering to hundreds of millions of people. Your civil rights and privacy are being whittled away on an ongoing basis, your government's surveillance policy largely targets it's citizens .... and then you have the audacity to tell me what is fake and what is not fake? Surely even you can see the raw irony in your response.

I've never had any interest in the topic until now so I'll read the book and see what the fuss is all about. If what you say is true that your country has passed legislation to ban discussion of an idea then that is truly a very sad reflection on the one country that proclaims itself to be the beacon of democracy and free thought.

Eddy Vluggen25-Mar-17 0:33

Eddy Vluggen

25-Mar-17 0:33

Ian Bell, #2 wrote:
You are from the country where the current administration denies human contribution is a major factor in global warming.

We currently don't have an administration, and the previous didn't.

Ian Bell, #2 wrote:
your government's surveillance policy largely targets it's citizens

That's not our police, can't be - they're not good with computers. You must be confused with one of our friendly nations who does that work on our behalf.

Ian Bell, #2 wrote:
and then you have the audacity to tell me what is fake and what is not fake?

Yes. The things that discredit my country or government do not discredit me. You are discrediting yourself by doubting the holocaust.

Ian Bell, #2 wrote:
If what you say is true that your country has passed legislation to ban discussion of an idea then that is truly a very sad reflection on the one country that proclaims itself to be the beacon of democracy and free thought.

Freedom does not mean that you can do what you want - that is anarchy, and rather deadly. And yes, you have the right to say what you want here - but as in all societies, there are rules. Even here on the forum.

Break the rules, face the consequence (or don't visit the forum).

--edit;

I've marked the thread as abusive.

Bastard Programmer from Hell Suspicious | :suss:

If you can't read my code, try converting it here[^]

modified 25-Mar-17 6:53am.

Ian Bell, #225-Mar-17 7:41

25-Mar-17 7:41

Give it a break Eddy. This is a programmers forum - not a political forum. But if you can express your opinion then surely there is no harm in my doing the same.

If you read all of my comments then you will realize you have completely misunderstood the entire context of my OP.

Finally, you need to spend more than a few years reading the Soapbox, as I have, in order to realize your notion of what constitutes abuse is not the same as those who make the rules here. There is nothing I have said that can even remotely be construed as abusive in regards to this forum.

Cheers,

Ian

Eddy Vluggen25-Mar-17 8:10

Eddy Vluggen

25-Mar-17 8:10

Ian Bell, #2 wrote:
But if you can express your opinion then surely there is no harm in my doing the same.

That's why we have that law - expressing that it did not happen is not an opinion; it is merely stating that the facts are incorrect. We can still point you to the consequences of what happened.

Ian Bell, #2 wrote:
There is nothing I have said that can even remotely be construed as abusive in regards to this forum.

"something you wouldn't want your kid sister to read"

Bastard Programmer from Hell Suspicious | :suss:

If you can't read my code, try converting it here[^]

Kornfeld Eliyahu Peter25-Mar-17 21:02

25-Mar-17 21:02

Eddy Vluggen wrote:
The Zyklon gas chambers did exist, but were used for delousing and sanitary purposes.

That's totally true - dead bodies are present a great sanitary problems!!!
And my grandparents (Auschwitz, Dachau, Mauthausen) told, there were a large number of those...

Skipper: We'll fix it.
Alex: Fix it? How you gonna fix this?
Skipper: Grit, spit and a whole lotta duct tape.

David O'Neil24-Mar-17 13:15

David O'Neil

24-Mar-17 13:15

If you are tempted to believe such BS, do yourself a favor and watch the video the Allies put together about the state of the concentration camps as they found them: Nazi Concentration Camps : Free Download & Streaming : Internet Archive. Viewing it is NOT for the faint of heart! There may be others, like Concentration Camp Nazi Atrocities Holocaust Documentary 77504 : Free Download & Streaming : Internet Archive, if you do more searching.

Sudden Sun Death Syndrome (SSDS) is a very real concern which we should be raising awareness of. 156 billion suns die every year before they're just 1 billion years old.
While the military are doing their part, it simply isn't enough to make the amount of nukes needed to save those poor stars. - TWI2T3D (Reddit)

Ian Bell, #224-Mar-17 16:30

24-Mar-17 16:30

I've been banging on the keyboard, night and day, for the past three weeks and really need an interesting diversion. I think I've found one.

As for this particular topic, I've never paid it any real attention until I read that Amazon banned these books. So I picked one that had previously been given high ratings on Amazon and decided the only way to come to an informed opinion was to check it out for myself.
Cheers,

Ian

P.S. The first chapter addresses introduces the very points you raise. This is going to be an interesting read.

Munchies_Matt24-Mar-17 21:07

24-Mar-17 21:07

You need to ask yourself why the Holocaust lobby exists, why it can not support literature that casts doubt on the Holocaust.

At the same time ask yourself why the wiki article on the Holocaust ignores completely the 5 million Slavs who were also killed, or the gypsies, spaniards mentally handicapped gays etc to etc.

Ian Bell, #225-Mar-17 6:44

25-Mar-17 6:44

These are some of the points raised in the first chapter and why I believe this book will make for an interesting read. But, as I have repeatedly indicated, I will reserve judgement until I've read the entire book.

thanks for the input.

Cheers,

Kornfeld Eliyahu Peter25-Mar-17 20:57

25-Mar-17 20:57

Munchies_Matt wrote:
why the wiki article on the Holocaust ignores completely the 5 million Slavs

Maybe you looked at the wrong wiki... Holocaust victims - Wikipedia[^]

Skipper: We'll fix it.
Alex: Fix it? How you gonna fix this?
Skipper: Grit, spit and a whole lotta duct tape.

Munchies_Matt26-Mar-17 22:36

26-Mar-17 22:36

Sigh: The Holocaust (from the Greek ὁλόκαυστος holókaustos: hólos, "whole" and kaustós, "burnt"),[3] also referred to as the Shoah (Hebrew: השואה, HaShoah, "the catastrophe"), was a genocide in which some six million European Jews were killed by Adolf Hitler's Nazi Germany, and the World War II collaborators with the Nazis.[^]

Perhaps you should not try to evade the truth so desperately.

Just google it: Google[^]

I count 9 instances of the word 'jew' and not one of 'slav' on the first page returned.

I think you get the point.

Kornfeld Eliyahu Peter26-Mar-17 23:06

26-Mar-17 23:06

You may got me wrong here... I just thought you missed it (as it is in a second level article)...
I do not state that the Holocaust is a Jewish-only problem (actually the number of Jews killed is about 10% of all the dead)...
I also do not deny the importance of those events to other people (Yad Vashem has a full section about non Jewish victims, and I used to read names on the Holocaust day several times, including theirs)...
However it is totally true that I mostly learn about and speak about the Jewish aspect, as I'm a Jew...

I of course can not explain why on the global level there are much more mentions of the Jews than the Slavs, where the number of victims are very same... Some may offer you a conspiracy, that may or may not be true, but I think it is more about the communist east that was created after the war... The regime was about the deny the past, so for instance the new Hungary has nothing to do with the one collaborated with Germany (it did not existed actually)... So any mention of the Nazi area became a taboo - either for good or bad, and all the Holocaust became a German-Jewish problem... As all the Slav areas in east Europe closed by the communist it may had the effect of silencing any true research and mention of their victims... On the other hand Israel was outside that territory so there people was able to write books and so, and the amount of publishing against the amount of silence created a twisted global picture...

Skipper: We'll fix it.
Alex: Fix it? How you gonna fix this?
Skipper: Grit, spit and a whole lotta duct tape.

Munchies_Matt26-Mar-17 23:17

26-Mar-17 23:17

What was there to miss? Sure if you dig you find the figures, but the prima facie fact is that Slavs (and other victims) are hardly ever mentioned.

As to why, well Israel depends on the constant presence of the Holocaust in peoples minds for its continued funding and global 'turning a blind eye' to it's ethnic cleansing and theft of Arab land. At least that's the only explanation I can see for it.

I question your figure of only 10% of the victims of the Holocaust being Jewish though, its nearer 50% as far as known figures suggest.

Kornfeld Eliyahu Peter26-Mar-17 23:23

26-Mar-17 23:23

Munchies_Matt wrote:
What was there to miss?

I saw there (in the link I added) a full paragraph about the Slav victims - that what I thought you missed...

Munchies_Matt wrote:
I question your figure of only 10% of the victims of the Holocaust being Jewish though, its nearer 50% as far as known figures suggest.

I included the solders too - while this is an other kind of loss they were human too...

Skipper: We'll fix it.
Alex: Fix it? How you gonna fix this?
Skipper: Grit, spit and a whole lotta duct tape.

Munchies_Matt26-Mar-17 23:29

26-Mar-17 23:29

Like I said, if you dig you will find the data, but it IS presented as a Jewish only event.

As for including soldiers, since that isn't a racial extermination I wouldn't include them. (OK Holocaust isn't necessarily Genocide, but since it is THE Holocaust we are talking about, then race is a key factor since Nazis considered Jews, Slavs, Gypsies etc as racially sub human.)

Richard Andrew x6425-Mar-17 1:19

Richard Andrew x64

25-Mar-17 1:19

Holocaust denial is illogical. If it did not happen, then where did all the victims go?

Yes, Jews, Slavs and everyone else.

The difficult we do right away...
...the impossible takes slightly longer.

Ian Bell, #225-Mar-17 6:42

25-Mar-17 6:42

Relax and take a deep breath. This is my first book on the topic and no one - not even the book - denies the atrocities of the war. It is pretty clear some of you guys really don't know what you are talking about other than preconceived notions of what you think the other side is saying. I won't know until I've read the book but I will say the first chapter contains interesting information and points.