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Bang on. Well said.
I wanna be a eunuchs developer! Pass me a bread knife!
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John Simmons / outlaw programmer wrote: I'm at the point where I've forgotten more programming stuff than a lot of people know. I learn what I need to, but I'm of the belief that the old ways are generally the best ways.
True.
Software Zen: delete this;
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What he said  (Literally) I'll be damned if I sell my soul for any type of job.
Having a love for something and *sustaining* that love for it should never be mutually exclusive options in life.
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I have to tell you that I find your "preferences" questionable, and would ask you to re-assess them.
From what I have seen, there are no such simple "attributes" that tell you if a guy will do a brilliant job or a bad one; it's more a case of seeing what frightens them and gets them interested.
I wanna be a eunuchs developer! Pass me a bread knife!
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programify wrote: then they can't be too serious about progamming for a living.
Nice top tip you've got there.  ( @chris-maunder : any update on that sarcasm emoticon?)
My top tip is that someone who can't spell programming correctly can't possibly be too serious about doing it for a living.
modified 15-Sep-16 21:03pm.
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Too bad he won't be able to get that refund from ITT.
"There are three kinds of lies: lies, damned lies and statistics."
- Benjamin Disraeli
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Nathan Minier wrote: refund from ITT
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Quote from QA: -knowledge on how to make variables
-knows how to make different loops
Pretty sure we covered this in the first couple weeks of first semester... What did this guy do for the other 3.9 years of his degree program...? 
The United States invariably does the right thing, after having exhausted every other alternative. -Winston Churchill
America is the only country that went from barbarism to decadence without civilization in between. -Oscar Wilde
Wow, even the French showed a little more spine than that before they got their sh*t pushed in.[^] -Colin Mullikin
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Quote: in the first couple weeks
I think I covered this on day one. By day two we were on to more complex things like if-then-else!
- I would love to change the world, but they won’t give me the source code.
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It shouldn't even need to be covered.
If someone who applies for such a course doesn't already know that much, they should transfer to home ec.
I wanna be a eunuchs developer! Pass me a bread knife!
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Maybe, but back then there were no home computers - this was all mainframe! I worked part-time at the college computer centre to supplement my partygrant money and had to wear a white coat!
- I would love to change the world, but they won’t give me the source code.
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OH, I loved having to wear the white coat!
Dev work sucks, these days 
I wanna be a eunuchs developer! Pass me a bread knife!
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I had practically zero programming experience when I got to college as a Computer Science major. It was pretty much all brand new to me.
The United States invariably does the right thing, after having exhausted every other alternative. -Winston Churchill
America is the only country that went from barbarism to decadence without civilization in between. -Oscar Wilde
Wow, even the French showed a little more spine than that before they got their sh*t pushed in.[^] -Colin Mullikin
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He went to uni and doesn't know this? Yikes!!! My kids learned this for their O levels.
We're philosophical about power outages here. A.C. come, A.C. go.
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I suppose that it is just barely possible that in some godforsaken corner of the Earth where they still think that digital wristwatches are a new idea there is a CS course that only teaches abstractions such as algorithms, data structures, and complexity theory.
...Naaaah!
If you have an important point to make, don't try to be subtle or clever. Use a pile driver. Hit the point once. Then come back and hit it again. Then hit it a third time - a tremendous whack.
--Winston Churchill
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Don't forget the three courses on communication skills and the five on outdated project-management methods.
Add that to your "all about abstraction because none of the lecturers knows a tinker's cuss about programming" courses. and you're left with maybe a week-and-a-half of actual programming, distributed an hour at a time over the four years.
I wanna be a eunuchs developer! Pass me a bread knife!
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I don't know how it is in other parts of the world but here in the US, a really large chunk of the colleges and universities have shifted into diploma-mills where competence in the subject matter is less important then butts-in-seats. As the federal government rampped up their student loan programs, the states have been cutting their contributions to state higher education. With stable income, the universities have been forced to rely on student aid to fund their operations. It was no small leap from the attitude of promoting education to the, "hey, we can make money here" mindset. Quality education no longer matters, it's all about how many students they can keep in those classrooms from semester to semester and the student aid they bring.
if (Object.DividedByZero == true) { Universe.Implode(); }
Meus ratio ex fortis machina. Simplicitatis de formae ac munus. -Foothill, 2016
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Definitely entry level; he's probably marketable as a government IT employee at best. There's a preconception that if you get a degree, then there will be a job waiting for you after graduation; I thought that! After being punched in the face a couple hundred times, I realized I had to fight, as well as study hard, to get established and have a decent career.
In the western world, you can no longer depend on the degree or the school on that degree. You need to prove that you can do the work before you get there, be it a website, portfolio, or I cringe to say certs.
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First of all, quality of education now a days is in serious question here and then the self Interest in the topic really matters. Have seen so many people who have learned programming without even going to a technical univeristy.
___@sHubHa
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Suvendu Shekhar Giri wrote: Have seen so many people who have learned programming without even going to a technical univeristy.
But sadly, they won't always get the same job or the same salary as one with the degree, even one so incompetent as the one quoted.
M.D.V. 
If something has a solution... Why do we have to worry about?. If it has no solution... For what reason do we have to worry about?
Help me to understand what I'm saying, and I'll explain it better to you
Rating helpful answers is nice, but saying thanks can be even nicer.
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True 
___@sHubHa
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It helps a lot to have a good science type degree, especially in some kind of engineering, physics, or chemistry. I got my chemistry degree and worked 13 years in the lab, but always programmed on my own as a hobby. Got into programming professionally when the job market bottomed out for chemists in the 90's. All of the companies that I interviewed for had the mindset of "Oh, you have a chemistry degree. You must be smart enough to do this job." I still had to code in the interviews, but much better than not having a degree at all.
When you are dead, you won't even know that you are dead. It's a pain only felt by others.
Same thing when you are stupid.
modified 19-Nov-21 21:01pm.
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Yes, seriously. Also not an incident, and prolly payed a lot to learn "all that". If degrees were so reliable then we wouldn't need a coding-challenge during an interview.
So if I can get a degree I'll politely decline again.
Bastard Programmer from Hell 
If you can't read my code, try converting it here[^]
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I feel the OP feelings are correct.
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I have only three times hired developers straight from university, and all three times I bitterly regretted it.
I wanna be a eunuchs developer! Pass me a bread knife!
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