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The whole point here is that Apple colluded with the Irish government to undercut other European countries in a one-off deal that is illegal under European law. It is not legal, hence Apple being liable for an enormous tax bill.
Well deserved, I say.
"If you don't fail at least 90 percent of the time, you're not aiming high enough."
Alan Kay.
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Well said - couldn't agree more
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Rage wrote: As for the rest, you are mixing up a lot of things.
Like what?
Apple and Ireland agreed on a tax rate. Apple paid it. The EU (not Ireland) wants more money and retroactively changes the rules to get it. What exactly have I mixed up?
In this present crisis, government is not the solution to our problem; government is the problem. ~ Ronald Reagan
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Mike Mullikin wrote: What exactly have I mixed up?
Your hate for Europe and the Apple case.
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 So nothing.
In this present crisis, government is not the solution to our problem; government is the problem. ~ Ronald Reagan
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The EU didn't change rules retroactively, the rules Ireland offered to Apple were not legal according to EU rules. Therefore, Apple must pay some extra taxes to Ireland, and Ireland probably will get fined at some point by the EU.
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Just a note: the EU didn't exist when Apple opened it's first office in Cork in 1980. The EEC was in existence then, the EU started in 1993.
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I sing in harmony with your song!
| Ravings en masse^ |
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| "The difference between genius and stupidity is that genius has its limits." - Albert Einstein | | "If you are searching for perfection in others, then you seek disappointment. If you are seek perfection in yourself, then you will find failure." - Balboos HaGadol Mar 2010 |
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Mike Mullikin wrote: Let Europeans live with the monster they've created.
If they1 cannot bring Turkey closer to EU, they'll try to bring EU closer to Turkey.
1 - not all Europeans live in EU
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A US Senate subcommittee seems to think that Apple has "used a tax loophole to shift the profits generated [in the US] by that valuable property offshore"
The New York Times[^] For my eyes, that would be a problem for US taxpayers as well.
You seem drawn to hating Europe, way before this. Better start hating the Senate too.
... such stuff as dreams are made on
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First of all I don't hate Europe or Europeans. I don't care for the EU and I think Europeans were silly for creating it. I believe in time they'll likely come to regret it. It may end up with big changes or dissolution. I fear it will get much worse before it gets better.
Secondly, as a rule I dislike much of the US federal government (including our Senate). It's a bloated, bureaucracy that nearly always forgets it's place at home (they should be our servants) and abroad (they need to stay out of other people's business).
Lastly, I don't believe for a second that Apple (or any other US corporation) is entirely innocent. They should all follow the laws, rules and regulations in every country they do business in. If they run afoul they should be punished.
My problem with this huge tax bill is the retroactive nature of it. Ireland set the rate. Apple paid it. The EU coming along later and demanding more money is wrong.
In this present crisis, government is not the solution to our problem; government is the problem. ~ Ronald Reagan
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As I mentioned above, it's not retroactive. Apple and the Irish government broke the European law initially by colluding to fix a one-off tax rate, giving Apple preferential treatment. That was illegal, so retroactive treatment seems entirely fair.
"If you don't fail at least 90 percent of the time, you're not aiming high enough."
Alan Kay.
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From what I've seen and read it's not so cut and dried about EU "law". As the years and appeals go by and lawyers get rich maybe it will become more clear.
I can say from personal experience and state as fact - European governments routinely give sweet-heart tax deals and other incentives to European corporations.
All things considered - this looks like a money grab. Hence my hope for a scorched Earth response.
In this present crisis, government is not the solution to our problem; government is the problem. ~ Ronald Reagan
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I'm with you: Europe confines with Russia so if a transatlantic market closes a Eurasian one opens. Which will break the egemony of US based companies here in Europe, kills the US market outside its own borders and break the current power structures, allowing for a greater social mobility than the one now possible.
GCS d--- s-/++ a- C++++ U+++ P- L- E-- W++ N++ o+ K- w+++ O? M-- V? PS+ PE- Y+ PGP t++ 5? X R++ tv-- b+ DI+++ D++ G e++>+++ h--- ++>+++ y+++* Weapons extension: ma- k++ F+2 X
If you think 'goto' is evil, try writing an Assembly program without JMP. -- TNCaver
When I was six, there were no ones and zeroes - only zeroes. And not all of them worked. -- Ravi Bhavnani
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It seems that Apple intended to pay those taxes in the US once the tax rate went below that horrendously unfair 40% that it is now. So by "parking" that money in Ireland, they betrayed the US of A if anybody.
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It already costs too much! 
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According to a post in the BBC's live blog on this, the American Treasury Department is claiming that Apple could claim that $13bn on their taxes over here. An interesting development.
if (Object.DividedByZero == true) { Universe.Implode(); }
Meus ratio ex fortis machina. Simplicitatis de formae ac munus. -Foothill, 2016
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If apple paid their taxes over here.
Many of the giant US corporations use the bloody EU as a tax haven.
| Ravings en masse^ |
|---|
| "The difference between genius and stupidity is that genius has its limits." - Albert Einstein | | "If you are searching for perfection in others, then you seek disappointment. If you are seek perfection in yourself, then you will find failure." - Balboos HaGadol Mar 2010 |
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W∴ Balboos wrote: If apple paid their taxes over here.
Apple pays about $15 billion in US federal taxes every year. They are exceeded only by Exxon Mobil and Chevron.
Surely you can check your facts. 
In this present crisis, government is not the solution to our problem; government is the problem. ~ Ronald Reagan
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Ouch!
I obsessed on how they're willing to bring in all of these accumulated off-shore assets if they get a discount on their taxes (along w/Google and others).
They are two different concepts - evasion vs. what they're paying - and I messed up.
| Ravings en masse^ |
|---|
| "The difference between genius and stupidity is that genius has its limits." - Albert Einstein | | "If you are searching for perfection in others, then you seek disappointment. If you are seek perfection in yourself, then you will find failure." - Balboos HaGadol Mar 2010 |
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The US corporate tax rate of 35% is obnoxious. It's no wonder American companies have $2,000,000,000,000 (yep, that's 2 trillion) in off shore accounts.
In this present crisis, government is not the solution to our problem; government is the problem. ~ Ronald Reagan
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better than paid for US war
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