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Welcome to the WEB world! 
And ohh, you forgot the JavaScript thing 
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JavaScript is a very nice and clean language full of features that are widely supported... Compared to HTML and CSS 
Ok, it's all bad, but my current pain is with HTML and CSS 
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Sander Rossel wrote: JavaScript is a very nice and clean language full of features that are widely supported...
Yes. In Mordor.
The language is JavaScript. that of Mordor, which I will not utter here
This is Javascript. If you put big wheels and a racing stripe on a golf cart, it's still a f***ing golf cart.
"I don't know, extraterrestrial?"
"You mean like from space?"
"No, from Canada."
If software development were a circus, we would all be the clowns.
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I'm pretty sure those orcs were styled using HTML and CSS
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The orcs were just Sauron's first victims
The language is JavaScript. that of Mordor, which I will not utter here
This is Javascript. If you put big wheels and a racing stripe on a golf cart, it's still a f***ing golf cart.
"I don't know, extraterrestrial?"
"You mean like from space?"
"No, from Canada."
If software development were a circus, we would all be the clowns.
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CDP1802 wrote: The orcs were just Sauron's first victims
Gollum was the first
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Agreed and that's what make us different. Every web developer will surely experience that, and I feel your pain.
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And PHP
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Sander, quit whining and learn web development. 
The sh*t I complain about
It's like there ain't a cloud in the sky and it's raining out - Eminem
~! Firewall !~
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Learn HTML: it's like XML, but with some pre-defined elements such as p, ul, ol, li, input, etc.
Learn CSS: # for id's, . for classes, all the other selectors you look up if you ever need them.
Congrats, you now know the basics.
The next step will be to actually use it and find out that everything does not work as you'd expect
horizontal/vertical-alignment? Never works.
width? Only works when the moon and stars are aligned every 1000 years.
line-height? Only on uhhh... That one element... You know?
margin? Works when the width of the height is the size of the alignment of the parents child's parent width height size.
float? For when you really want to mess up everything.
I could go on, but there's only one conclusion I can make.
HTML/CSS is the worst piece of crap 'technology' that's currently known to men (followed closely by Crystal Reports).
It's not about learning it, because the idea is simple. It's about using it a lot, finding out all the quirks and inconsistencies, remembering them, and then knowing how to solve something the next time (but you probably forgot already and need to try out different combinations again). That's the true nature of HTML/CSS
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I can't see your problem - it is like you were saying you can't paint the wall with a hammer 
Skipper: We'll fix it.
Alex: Fix it? How you gonna fix this?
Skipper: Grit, spit and a whole lotta duct tape.
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Next time, pay very close attention to my signature.
Quote: The sh*t I complain about
It's like there ain't a cloud in the sky and it's raining out - Eminem
I wrote that when I was a web developer. Now, I am a happy man.
The sh*t I complain about
It's like there ain't a cloud in the sky and it's raining out - Eminem
~! Firewall !~
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Afzaal Ahmad Zeeshan wrote: It's like there ain't a cloud in the sky and it's raining out - Eminem
The clouds are there, they probably have the wrong CSS (not visible, not in the DOM, transparent, off the page...) 
I always say "life is a trail of tears and then you die."
It usually lifts my spirit, but even my cheery self can't handle HTML/CSS
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Poor web developer.
Take my tip: When something like this happen, leave the work and go relax. I watch a movie in that time, listen to music or at best I sleep.
The sh*t I complain about
It's like there ain't a cloud in the sky and it's raining out - Eminem
~! Firewall !~
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Chris C-B wrote: if you can get it to work in just one browser, you can guarantee it won't work in any other.
How could I forget about that 
Chris C-B wrote: I even write in VB.net
It's just C# with slightly different syntax 
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Chris C-B wrote: I quit web development just before the death of classic ASP, and have been a happy man ever since. I even write in VB.net, rather than go back to web stuff. 
I've been trying on-and-off for 16 years to get myself into Web development (I've been coding for nearly 40 years) and every time I hit a wall with it. Good thing I'm not doing Web for a living! I know "basically" how it all works and have done some simple web applications (ASP.Net) but I'm always happier (and less prone to headaches) in the "back end" writing rules-engines and dealing with SQL. The Winforms GUI is nice and mature and lets me express the data the way I want it to. I guess I'm just not enough of a masochist to get too deep into the web stuff. I'd rather just write some nice C# (or VB.Net).
Nice to see that it isn't just me that goes crazy looking at this web technology which, incidentally, really seems like a hacked together form of "programming". Ugh ...
modified 3-Aug-16 14:51pm.
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Preach, brother.
Personally, I can't figure out why they decided to use text to transmit web data instead of raw binary. Both would have to be parsed to be displayed anyway. While text may be readable, it requires 5X+ the bandwidth.
Nowadays, when you visit most websites you get mabey 5KB of actual content and 350KB of pure B.S. (ads, scripts, etc...) that have to be pulled down from 30 different other websites.
if (Object.DividedByZero == true) { Universe.Implode(); }
Meus ratio ex fortis machina. Simplicitatis de formae ac munus. -Foothill, 2016
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I have to agree on the Crystal Reports! Everytime I touch one I have to reset the data connection! Nothing ever formats the way you want it. Please oh please let me replace them?
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I've found that HTML/CSS works a Hell of a lot better if you take out the CSS.
I wanna be a eunuchs developer! Pass me a bread knife!
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I feel your pain. I am going through the exact same learning curve myself, right now.
It IS getting better, the more that I work at it. But I will laugh long and hard in the face of any of the fools that complain about VB or C#.
HTML, CSS, Java (script or otherwise), RAD tools they are NOT, Consistent they are really NOT.
Check out Bootstrap, it has helped me tremendously.
ChickenLegWilly
A giraffe is a horse designed by a committee.
A camel is a horse designed and developed using Agile...
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I feel your pain. CSS can be trickier than it might seem. For things like horizontal and vertical alignment you need to take into account what containers the styled elements are placed inside of. That will influence what style rule you can use or what style rule combinations you need to use in order to make the alignment work. The sucky part about it for me was that until I was given an explanation, I probably wouldn't have been able to figure out the dependencies by myself or by referencing many of the popular web standards tutorials out on the web.
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I'm so glad I am not alone. Html has 'evolved' for want of a better word, over a number of years. Bits have been tacked on until it has become a horror to use.
To my mind css is the icing on the cake. It puts all the formatting into a dark cupboard, or even a number of dark cupboards, that make it hard to follow.
I am currently struggling with bootstrap. Yes it works but how the hell do you remember what all the bits do? It's like trying to remember all the Java libraries, yech!!!
I wanna go back to desktop development...
We're philosophical about power outages here. A.C. come, A.C. go.
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Thanks God I don't do web development for a living.
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OMG I am not alone.
HTML/CSS is a Hackers Dream. You keep hacking away at it until it works in your browser.
Then you repeat it for the various other browsers. Then you go on a shooting spree when the
first Mobile user hits the page, LOL.
I used to design every web page INSIDE of a <table>. I got lots of crap over it.
But guess what? I could get things to line up, and I could easily push back and say "Nope,
can't do that, how about this?"
But HTML Fixed (broke) all of that with DIVs that NEVER seem to align properly.
And then doing it with indirection... It reminds me of the Robin Williams Rant on Golf!
We write simple HTML.
Q: Using HTML
No. Using a completely different language, with no understanding of HTML. (Laughing starts)
Q: Oh to make it easier
No. To make you have to compile it, and then test it, and NEVER quite know what is wrong.
Q: But once you are done, you are good
NO. Because you have to test every browser... (Stronger Laughter)
Q: Then you are good
NO. Because you have to check mobile, and iPads
Q: Finally good?
NOPE. Because the browsers will get updated, and the standards will change and break things.
Other than that Mrs. Lincoln, how was the play?
modified 4-Aug-16 13:11pm.
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