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Anders Molin wrote:
I'm not sure I really like that structure, it needs a lot of people.
Please, don't think of it as "structure". That was a bad term. Think of it as an offensive lineup, or the types of players that need to take the field during a pariticular play. I bascially gave an overview of an entire (american) football team. You need an offense, defense, and kick-off/punt/fieldgoal speciality teams, each customized for their task. The flexibility is there for project leads to do as they choose, but somehow in some form those roles need to be filled. I am not saying one person per role, several people will fill several roles, that is certain. I do however feel that you cannot deliver an SEI level 3 or higher product with any of those roles missing. (especially as the projects get larger and more ambitious)
Anders Molin wrote:
To be honest it looks like something they use at IBM or other big old compagnies
Relative to other areas of engineering disipline, software engineering is quite new, and is in need of some form of measurement of quality IMO. It's not intended as an imposing paradigm but as a standard against which to judge.
- Nitron
"Those that say a task is impossible shouldn't interrupt the ones who are doing it." - Chinese Proverb
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OK, its been done before, but as I am a possible runner for PL in this project (subject to Tom Welch coming back), I wanted to get the ball rolling on this.
Any suggestions on the library and what should be in it can be posted on my Message board[^] as well.
So get going people. I saw an earlier post with a long list of suggestions, so I will be looking at that again as a good starting footprint.
Roger Allen
Sonork 100.10016
Were you different as a kid? Did you ever say "Ooohhh, shiny red" even once? - Paul Watson 11-February-2003
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You're not really gonna call it UGLY are you?
I think GUILD or FLUID are better names.
------- signature starts
"...the staggering layers of obscenity in your statement make it a work of art on so many levels." - Jason Jystad, 10/26/2001
Please review the Legal Disclaimer in my bio.
------- signature ends
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John Simmons / outlaw programmer wrote:
You're not really gonna call it UGLY are you?
I think GUILD or FLUID are better names.
UGLY is just a recognisable name for the moment, until a final formallised name gets decided on, its a good enough handle to use for the moment, which people recognise at that.
But after saying that, I will not do the project unless we can get the most annoying anacronym as possible! 
Roger Allen
Sonork 100.10016
Were you different as a kid? Did you ever say "Ooohhh, shiny red" even once? - Paul Watson 11-February-2003
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GUILD or FLUID are possible if there are no copyright issues.
How about this:
RUID - Roger's UserInterfaces Deluxe
I am sure it would boost Roger's motivation through the roof... 
jhaga
CodeProject House, Paul Watson wrote:
...and the roar of John Simmons own personal Nascar in the garage. Meg flitting about taking photos.Chris having an heated arguement with Colin Davies and .S.Rod. over egian values. Nish manically typing *censur*. Duncan racing around after his pet *c.* Michael Martin and Bryce loudly yelling *c.* C.G. having a fit as Roger Wright loads up *c.* . Anna waving her *c.* and Deb scoffing chocolates in the corner.
...Good heavens!
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For me it is most important that they are well tested om all relevant operation systems. I am prepared to do testing on XP.
[sorry for this anonymous]
jhaga
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Anonymous wrote:
most important that they are well tested on all relevant operation systems.
This is a good point, we need to setup testers on various OS's. I myself have access to XP, 2K, NT4
Anonymous wrote:
[sorry for this anonymous]
As long as I know who to blame....
Roger Allen
Sonork 100.10016
Were you different as a kid? Did you ever say "Ooohhh, shiny red" even once? - Paul Watson 11-February-2003
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I can test it on Win95, Win98 and Win2000.
-Dominik
_outp(0x64, 0xAD);
and
__asm mov al, 0xAD __asm out 0x64, al
do the same... but what do they do?? 
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Please post all responses to Roger's message board as he asked.
thanks
Jason Henderson My articles
"The best argument against democracy is a five-minute conversation with the average voter." - Winston Churchill
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Sorry, I have been away for a few days. In the near future my schedule will clear up but I'd hate to commit to anything that would let down a team project. I plan on being involved as much as I can, but I would certainly prefer that Roger take the PL on this project. I am always available if he is no longer available.
I am just amazed at the number of messages I need to catch up on!  Looks like I can spend all day on CP getting caught up.
Thanks for taking initiative on this, Roger.
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check out my week 1 digest (top post at the moment)
Jason Henderson latest CPP news
"If you are going through hell, keep going." - Winston Churchill
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Thanks for doing the digest!
"Blessed are the peacemakers, for they shall be called sons of God." - Jesus
"You must be the change you wish to see in the world." - Mahatma Gandhi
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Looks like your the guy now.
Congrats!
Jason Henderson latest CPP news
"If you are going through hell, keep going." - Winston Churchill
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I'm shamesly reusing Marc's idea
If any of you have some great ideas about the product(s) and how to make them, please make a post at my message board [^].
The original idea was to bild both a Defect Tracker (bug tracker) and a Soruce Control (like Source Safe or CVS) and make them work together.
My hope is to make a system that is as good as Bugzilla and as CVS, but make it work like Windows developers are used to. This means smoothless integration with VS.NET, and a good GUI for management and daily use.
Headlines:
What would you want in a new Defect Tracker
What would you want to see in a new Source Control System
What languages do we use to make this product
As I see it there's several parts in this project, and we might be able to use both native C++, and .NET and ASP.NET
- Anders
Money talks, but all mine ever says is "Goodbye!"
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Seapine Software have created a great link between its Defect System (Test Track Pro) and its CVS (Surround SCM) .. Worth checking out.
www.seapine.com.
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Organization chart: (I have a thingy for these so bear with me)
Chris and Paul at the top of course.
Projects coordinator:Jason Henderson
- main responsibility is to report to Chris and Paul about requests that the project leaders(PL) have proposed to him. This will prevent individual PL to overload Chris.
- should have no saying in individual projects.
- can any time contact PLs and propose different ways to collaborate and how to make us all feel like one group.
Project leaders:
- would have full freedom to build up their own project. Before people join the PL should make clear how decisions are made and the objective of the project.
- write up an abstract using a template file to make Jason happy
Project members:
- should give some information about their general CP activity. By for example writing in their biography that they are on vacation etc.
Decisions are made by all CPP members doing a "vote 48h" like the one I have posted somewhere around here.
And hey, lets open up this forum and we can get going!
jhaga
CodeProject House, Paul Watson wrote:
...and the roar of John Simmons own personal Nascar in the garage. Meg flitting about taking photos.Chris having an heated arguement with Colin Davies and .S.Rod. over egian values. Nish manically typing *censur*. Duncan racing around after his pet *c.* Michael Martin and Bryce loudly yelling *c.* C.G. having a fit as Roger Wright loads up *c.* . Anna waving her *c.* and Deb scoffing chocolates in the corner.
...Good heavens!
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jhaga wrote:
Chris and Paul at the top of course.
Paul?
- Anders
Money talks, but all mine ever says is "Goodbye!"
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Paul is Chris's right hand. Or not?
jhaga
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And one more thing! Write alternatives to my proposal. No voting here, damn it !
jhaga
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OK, this is a good good question.
First of all, I don't think Paul is in the heirarchy with Chris here on CP.
Secondly, we're going to do all of this without bugging Chris too much. So all requests should go through me if possible and I will compile a list of CP improvements pertaining to projects and give them to Chris at or near the end of Phase 3 or earlier if the need arises.
Third, as for my role in all this, I may want to join a project but like you said, once the projects start I want the PLs to take over. I would like to stay involved on a global scale and give suggestions from time to time and be a soundboard for the PLs. I think of myself being the "invisible hand" leading all 3 projects to completion. (I will also be here for complaints I guess.)
Fourth, I want the PLs to be free but I want to help them set down the guidlines and the processes to make things run smoothly. That's where the abstract comes in. We need certain standards that's all.
Last but not least, project members definitely should give out their current activity and experience when asked by the PL. I don't think resumes or CVs are necessary, but code examples or past articles on CP would be good reference. I'll leave the decision making up to the PLs, so if they want to run a tight ship that's their prerogative.
BTW, I'm not ready to open the forum yet, so cool your jets. I would rather be the guy that posts things and I will start posting RFCs here soon.
Jason Henderson My articles
"The best argument against democracy is a five-minute conversation with the average voter." - Winston Churchill
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Mostly I agree with you.
Paul is online alot and at times when we in Europe are awake. After Chris, he is the best one to give feedback to our ideas. If you have somebody else please put forward. The more people interested in what we do the better.
And to close down this forum temporarly was a good idea but now, or very soon, it should open up so that we can air our opinions. This RFC I don't understand so I will not say anything about that.
The abstract you mention is perfect for giving a framework for our projects, but after that it should be free for PL to do their work without anybody interfering.
jhaga
CodeProject House, Paul Watson wrote:
...and the roar of John Simmons own personal Nascar in the garage. Meg flitting about taking photos.Chris having an heated arguement with Colin Davies and .S.Rod. over egian values. Nish manically typing *censur*. Duncan racing around after his pet *c.* Michael Martin and Bryce loudly yelling *c.* C.G. having a fit as Roger Wright loads up *c.* . Anna waving her *c.* and Deb scoffing chocolates in the corner.
...Good heavens!
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jhaga wrote:
And to close down this forum temporarly was a good idea but now, or very soon, it should open up so that we can air our opinions. This RFC I don't understand so I will not say anything about that.
RFC = request for comments
This gives me more control over what gets put out here. Without control there would be complete chaos here, so I will maintain it until the teams are formed and projects started.
Of course, this is not my web site, and all control I have is granted by you and others interested in CPP. I have no legal right to keep you from posting anything. But, if you wish this to go smoothly (as it has so far), then please continue to let me make the rules.
jhaga wrote:
The abstract you mention is perfect for giving a framework for our projects, but after that it should be free for PL to do their work without anybody interfering.
I won't interfere with the project decisions (unless I am on the team), but I will try to influence how things are run so we stay on track. Does that sound reasonable? Even if it doesn't, I'm going to do it anyway, since I have taken the initiative here. I will try not to get in the way, but I'll try to keep things from falling apart if possible.
Jason Henderson My articles
"The best argument against democracy is a five-minute conversation with the average voter." - Winston Churchill
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I don't understand why you would need to control our messages, but once I see the first RFC, maybe I will understand.
Anyhow I have been CP addict lately, and really need to do some other things. Once I get abstinens symptoms and can't stay away, I will attack you again. (just joking)
jhaga
CodeProject House, Paul Watson wrote:
...and the roar of John Simmons own personal Nascar in the garage. Meg flitting about taking photos.Chris having an heated arguement with Colin Davies and .S.Rod. over egian values. Nish manically typing *censur*. Duncan racing around after his pet *c.* Michael Martin and Bryce loudly yelling *c.* C.G. having a fit as Roger Wright loads up *c.* . Anna waving her *c.* and Deb scoffing chocolates in the corner.
...Good heavens!
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jhaga wrote:
I don't undestand why you would need to control our messages
Look at it this way, if I post something important without controling the other messages, the important message would quickly get moved to the bottom of the forum. It helps ease the confusion.
Jason Henderson My articles
"The best argument against democracy is a five-minute conversation with the average voter." - Winston Churchill
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Ok, I will follow this forum with great interest.
jhaga
CodeProject House, Paul Watson wrote:
...and the roar of John Simmons own personal Nascar in the garage. Meg flitting about taking photos.Chris having an heated arguement with Colin Davies and .S.Rod. over egian values. Nish manically typing *censur*. Duncan racing around after his pet *c.* Michael Martin and Bryce loudly yelling *c.* C.G. having a fit as Roger Wright loads up *c.* . Anna waving her *c.* and Deb scoffing chocolates in the corner.
...Good heavens!
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