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PIEBALDconsult2-Aug-15 8:20

PIEBALDconsult

2-Aug-15 8:20

Avijnata wrote:
Bad teaching can really spoil the show, ...

Buuut... it takes only one student to point out an error and correct it for the whole class. Whereas in online, the other students may never hear about it.

I know I probably came off as a bit of a know-it-all (I did know it all ; I was eighteen at the time), but there was a class I took in college where I knew a few things the teacher didn't -- he was familiar with Apple, but the college had a PDP-11. I felt it MY DUTY to provide system-specific clarification to the class.

DrABELL2-Aug-15 8:25

2-Aug-15 8:25

Virtual Classrooms can easily be made Interactive (see my other post)

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Amarnath S2-Aug-15 16:52

Amarnath S

2-Aug-15 16:52

Well, depends on the culture. In cultures where I come from, pointing a mistake of the teacher is generally frowned upon. Also, many kids tend to be introverted, so would not point out such mistakes even on spotting them, for fear of getting ridiculed. But, that was a long time back ... times have changed ...

(I was also one such kid Smile | :)

)

modified 2-Aug-15 23:27pm.

RASPeter3-Aug-15 7:09

RASPeter

3-Aug-15 7:09

Every online class I took in college required that we post at least once per week in the class forum. Granted, that doesn't necessarily mean that the other students read what you write, but how many other students were actually paying attention when you corrected that teacher?

DrABELL2-Aug-15 8:24

2-Aug-15 8:24

True! I'm gonna just add couple words: online education can be easily made REAL-TIME/INTERACTIVE (so called, VIRTUAL CLASSROOMS). Also:

Online Education pros
1). Huge variety of topics and teachers to select
2). Comfort and Safety
3). Flexible schedule

Classroom cons
1). Very unsafe and/or over-crowded in many areas
2). Public toilet hygiene issues
3). Huge transportation overhead

Best regards,

<lol>Life is 2short 2remove USB safely

modified 2-Aug-15 14:42pm.

Amarnath S2-Aug-15 17:34

Amarnath S

2-Aug-15 17:34

DrABELL wrote:
online education can be easily made REAL-TIME/INTERACTIVE

This is a technology I'm yet to understand. One such instance is Udacity - where they have radio buttons, check boxes, text boxes in the video. How do they do it?

(Did not search for this technology on Internet)

DrABELL3-Aug-15 0:14

3-Aug-15 0:14

Avijnata wrote:
where they have radio buttons, check boxes, text boxes in the video

Not sure if I got your question right: what's that big deal of having couple controls added to the video chat box (aka chat rooms)? Btw, you can post your programming question separately with some examples for added clarity (re: the rules for The Lounge: "Technical discussions are encouraged, but click here to ask your programming question.") Best regards,

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W∴ Balboos, GHB2-Aug-15 8:28

W∴ Balboos, GHB

2-Aug-15 8:28

One of the key element in group education is the socialization experience.

Maybe I should say "was" - as now, with everyone's face buried in their telephone - that apparently is no longer relevant. There's also making sure the student actually does the work.

"The difference between genius and stupidity is that genius has its limits." - Albert Einstein

"As far as we know, our computer has never had an undetected error." - Weisert

"If you are searching for perfection in others, then you seek disappointment. If you are seek perfection in yourself, then you will find failure." - Balboos HaGadol Mar 2010

DrABELL2-Aug-15 8:42

2-Aug-15 8:42

Valid point(s), but Interactive Classrooms also provide certain feedback/audio-visual interactivity. Take, for example, Webinars- quite efficient online educational technologies. Best regards,

<lol>Life is 2short 2remove USB safely

GuyThiebaut2-Aug-15 9:04

GuyThiebaut

2-Aug-15 9:04

Socialisation is good to an extent - when it becomes 'learning to conform and abide by the rules' it destroys the creative spirit and, as has been shown in many cases, young boys do better if they are not sitting down for most of the day.
I remember building balsa wood aircraft with one teacher and visiting an airfield where we got to sit in a Cessna 172 and try the controls - I learnt a heck of a lot more about engineering and aeronautics through that than I did about biology through reading stuffy 1970's textbooks.

“That which can be asserted without evidence, can be dismissed without evidence.”

― Christopher Hitchens

DrABELL2-Aug-15 9:14

2-Aug-15 9:14

Yep, it's mostly true! Several decades ago I've formulated a "Learn, Practice, Apply" (LPA) educational paradigm and calculated approximate LPA time-allocation matrix for public STEM education. Pertinent to the high-school, "Apply/Practice" activities should match the 'Learn", focusing on "Learning by Doing" educational approach.

<lol>Life is 2short 2remove USB safely

GuyThiebaut2-Aug-15 8:59

GuyThiebaut

2-Aug-15 8:59

I did very poorly academically despite or perhaps because of being sent to a fee paying British boarding school for 10 years.
It was not until during my university years when I decided to educate myself in the areas I was actually interested that I actually started to learn anything of use(I became a voracious reader of literature - Roman, Greek, Victorian and more modern works - and started to learn for once).
As far as I was concerned the 10+ years of school was pretty much a complete waste of time - what I learnt at school, that was of any interest or use to me, I could probably have learnt in 6 months.

“That which can be asserted without evidence, can be dismissed without evidence.”

― Christopher Hitchens

DrABELL2-Aug-15 9:07

2-Aug-15 9:07

Time wasted at school could be huge, but not exactly 100%. Systemic education is still rather important in STEM (Science, Technology, Engineering, Math) area, either it's implemented in regular classrooms, or in the virtual ones.

<lol>Life is 2short 2remove USB safely

R. Giskard Reventlov2-Aug-15 10:26

R. Giskard Reventlov

2-Aug-15 10:26

DrABELL wrote:
PS. frankly, eLearning should be implemented on a mass scale long time ago: what is that special they are doing in the classrooms that cannot be done online?

I don't believe there is a one-size-fits-all solution; however, online education should certainly have a part to play but the friendships, sports and social activities that are a vitally important part of child development cannot be done online.

BTW, that site of yours really shows your age! Smile | :)

DrABELL2-Aug-15 12:02

2-Aug-15 12:02

'1Size fits all' already been covered in details (C'Mon, read the entire uber-comments thread Big Grin | :-D

):
online education comes in many sizes, like 1280x800, 1366x800, 1920x800, 2560x1440, etc.

<lol>Life is 2short 2remove USB safely

R. Giskard Reventlov2-Aug-15 12:59

R. Giskard Reventlov

2-Aug-15 12:59

I'm strictly 25*80. If it don't fit that, it don't fit. Smile | :)

DrABELL2-Aug-15 13:29

2-Aug-15 13:29

Ja, auld habits die hard, but try thinking outside the box: EXAMPLE [^] Big Grin | :-D

<lol>Life is 2short 2remove USB safely

SeattleC++3-Aug-15 8:42

SeattleC++

3-Aug-15 8:42

I have two kids who attended online high school (not a crazy home-schooler, not living in Outer Mongolia, it was kids' own personal issues), so I think I have a few things to say.

First off, if you can manage to stagger into a physical classroom and remain awake, you learn some things just by having the lecture enter your ears. That is, it is less boring to listen to the lecture than to count the holes in the ceiling tiles, so mostly you do. The biggest problem with virtual classes is that you don't need to do it at any particular time. There's always something else you can do, especially with your computer. Especially when you're used to using your computer to watch youtube and read 4chan.

Second, it's really hard for teachers to prepare perfect presentation materials. Teachers in classroom use feedback from the listeners to ad lib there way out of weakness in their materials. These weaknesses become glaringly apparent in a non-interactive classroom. Really good presentation can make a taped lecture hugely engaging. Crappy web TV of an imperfect live performance, not so much. Guess where on the spectrum most remote lectures fall.

Third, watching a lecture on TV is not as engaging as attending a lecture. Listening to a recorded lecture is harder still. Reading a book is even less engaging. The fact of the matter is, all other things being equal, that it's easier to have knowledge spoon fed to you than if you have to work for it.

Fourth, every pause or imperfection in the speaker's delivery, every scratchy mic noise, every compression artifact, is incredibly distracting on the screen, where we are used to high production values. We understand, at a level way below consciousness, that humans in meatspace say, "Um, uh...". On TV, we are trained to expect perfection. Perfect beauty (how many teachers are hired because they are really beautiful), perfect diction, perfect delivery, perfect screenwriting, perfect lighting, urgent pacing, a musical sound track to get your attention and help you understand what is good, bad, significant, important.

Without this stuff, you realize just how limiting the screen is. Your attention wanders. You wish they'd hurry up and get to the good stuff. And this is with lectures you actually sought out and wanted to watch. Now think how hard it is if you are just grinding through it because your mom says you have to go to school.

I think virtual education has a bright future. But the future won't arrive until we stop thinking we can make a cheap recording of a mediocre live lecture, compress the sh*t out of it, and stream it onto the tiny screen of your cell phone. Ultimately, we will have a choice of several well-produced, high quality lectures on each desired topic. Then virtual education will rock.

DrABELL3-Aug-15 9:09

3-Aug-15 9:09

SeattleC++ wrote:
I think virtual education has a bright future. But the future won't arrive until we stop thinking we can make a cheap recording of a mediocre live lecture, compress the sh*t out of it, and stream it onto the tiny screen of your cell phone.

I would recommend to read the previous comments addressing various issues and, in particular, this one: it was already pointed out that online education can implement Virtual Classrooms with full duplex audio-visual and text communication between teachers/students. Such technology has been around for many years. Also, you can find in comments thread a concise but insightful pros/cons analysis of Real vs Virtual Classrooms. Best regards,

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SeattleC++3-Aug-15 10:43

SeattleC++

3-Aug-15 10:43

DrABELL wrote:
read the previous comments addressing various issues and, in particular, this one: it was already pointed out that online education can implement Virtual Classrooms with full duplex audio-visual and text communication between teachers/students.

I refer you to my comment that squeezing even a full duplex audio-visual view onto a small screen is not as good as live presence. In fact, it is poor design to attempt to recreate the live lecture feeling on a tiny screen and tinny speaker. The presentation is best adapted to employ the strengths of the medium and mitigate its shortcomings.

I further note that, as I mentioned, while the capability has been available for years, its implementation into actual distance-learning situations has been mostly of poor quality, as witnessed by my own and my children's actual experience rather than some third-party analysis.

We probably agree that the best possible distance learning implementation can be competitive with actual presence. I eagerly await the day that the best possible distance learning implementation becomes commonplace.

DrABELL3-Aug-15 11:19

3-Aug-15 11:19

Well, who would argue that listening to Maria Callas at Metropolitan Opera is a way better than watching her performance on TV or PC. But not all of us are so lucky to reside in that particular ZIP code (plus, having enough extra cash in the pocket). As a matter of fact, many of us would be just glad to have at least that minimal opportunity, i.e. quality PC video streaming. The same could be said about real/virtual classrooms. Btw, the quality of video-streaming currently is pretty high (refer to my kinda auld but rather popular articles on this topic posted on CP YouTube™ Embedded Video Player: Extended API (C#)[^] )
Best regards,

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