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One thing that Microsoft team needs to understand is that Internet Explorer is helpfull, just to download some other better Internet explorer (a software to explore the internet, not the Internet ExplorerTM). Anyways, Internet Explorer is also a good explorer; no pun intended.
There are a lot of news in the market, that Spartan is coming with Windows 10[^] and it will do this and it will do that, I mean, what did Internet Explorer didn't do? Internet Explorer gave us a lot of opportunities to shape our designing skills, and to understand CSS and JavaScript better, best of all, it gave us the Twitter Bootstrap, Kudos for Internet Explorer from my side.
Finally, yes Spartan is coming, and it will replace the Internet Explorer as the default browser, but the fact that we, now, need to understand - and fathom - is that Internet Explorer is not going anywhere. Internet Explorer will still be there, as a back compatible version, for websites and other stuff. For this, you can read this qoute from the link I attached a few lines above.
Quote: Microsoft will continue to include Internet Explorer in Windows 10, and we understand this will be primarily for legacy compatibility reasons. Spartan is the main browser in Windows 10, and most users will be accessing the web using it.
Good luck for designers, good luck for developers!
The sh*t I complain about
It's like there ain't a cloud in the sky and it's raining out - Eminem
~! Firewall !~
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Uninstall Chrome! try it run fiddler you'll see what I mean.
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I use Opera, Firefox, Safari and I like IE, its just simple. And all those people whining about slow speed, I never had any slow speed problem. In fact I saw more problems in other browsers than IE.
People are like chain, one dislike, rest of them follows.
TVMU^P[[IGIOQHG^JSH`A#@`RFJ\c^JPL>;"[,*/|+&WLEZGc`AFXc!L
%^]*IRXD#@GKCQ`R\^SF_WcHbORY87֦ʻ6ϣN8ȤBcRAV\Z^&SU~%CSWQ@#2
W_AD`EPABIKRDFVS)EVLQK)JKQUFK[M`UKs*$GwU#QDXBER@CBN%
R0~53%eYrd8mt^7Z6]iTF+(EWfJ9zaK-iTV.C\y<pjxsg-b$f4ia> -----------------------------------------------
128 bit encrypted signature, crack if you can
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You might not have compared running scripts in browsers.
If you didn't encounter problem with IE, then, you are very lucky.
We as a developer have very hard time running complex javascripts in IE. Specially till IE 9.
IE 9 above is at least OK but far behind. Unfortunately, some clients still uses IE 7 and 8.
Life is a computer program and everyone is the programmer of his own life.
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Facebook is completely generated by scripts, never have problem on IE.
Anurag Gandhi wrote: Unfortunately, some clients still uses IE 7 and 8.
It is those clients fault, not IE. They are suppose to update and use newest possible version.
TVMU^P[[IGIOQHG^JSH`A#@`RFJ\c^JPL>;"[,*/|+&WLEZGc`AFXc!L
%^]*IRXD#@GKCQ`R\^SF_WcHbORY87֦ʻ6ϣN8ȤBcRAV\Z^&SU~%CSWQ@#2
W_AD`EPABIKRDFVS)EVLQK)JKQUFK[M`UKs*$GwU#QDXBER@CBN%
R0~53%eYrd8mt^7Z6]iTF+(EWfJ9zaK-iTV.C\y<pjxsg-b$f4ia> -----------------------------------------------
128 bit encrypted signature, crack if you can
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Facebook might have problem developing scripts for IE. 
That what I too faced developing client side scripts for IE (specially IE 8).
It was quite slow and I had to optimize a lot to make it smooth in IE 8.
Users won't know much difference unless he will measure render time.
Life is a computer program and everyone is the programmer of his own life.
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If you are going to support wide range of users, then you have to do extra work. As a developer, to make an awesome application, extra work is always required. It is not IE fault, look at its versions release dates. IE 8 was released in 2009, and you are developing a website in 2014 or 15, how do you suppose it should still understand the current technology if its not updated to newer version.
TVMU^P[[IGIOQHG^JSH`A#@`RFJ\c^JPL>;"[,*/|+&WLEZGc`AFXc!L
%^]*IRXD#@GKCQ`R\^SF_WcHbORY87֦ʻ6ϣN8ȤBcRAV\Z^&SU~%CSWQ@#2
W_AD`EPABIKRDFVS)EVLQK)JKQUFK[M`UKs*$GwU#QDXBER@CBN%
R0~53%eYrd8mt^7Z6]iTF+(EWfJ9zaK-iTV.C\y<pjxsg-b$f4ia> -----------------------------------------------
128 bit encrypted signature, crack if you can
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IE has so much negative baggage it has built up over the years is best to retire it and start fresh with something new.
think of it like Notepad and Wordpad that both come with Windows. IE can be the Notepad version of the browser that comes with windows.
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It's a bad idea to drop product that is a household name, but IE is considered old and is losing market share as we speak. It is risky, though.
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and focus on the stuff that makes them money, and us money.
They can keep a bare bones browser, but let Google/etc. handle the browser stuff.
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Microsoft needs a good CEO.
People forget how innovative MS was in the early days. Windows, Office sweet (which is still bringing in the money, Access, COM, DHTML, SOAP ... IE was infinitely superior to Netscape. Unfortunately Monkey-boy was terrible and managed to even miss the phone market. IE was allowed to rot. And Windows seems to get worse after each major release.
I'm afraid I don't think Satya Nadella is the answer either.
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Very good points. I agree. In my mind I equate Microsoft to any great person or entity that used to be a top contender and now they are not. The CEO for MS now is just as bad as Ballmer was, if not worse.
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I've never understood the debate about which browser is best - they all do pretty much the same thing. So, they get rid of IE and replace it with something which does the same thing.
I'm on the edge of my seat in anticipation.
Regards,
Rob Philpott.
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The whole debate comes from web developers, not users. IE (used to be?) is behind other browsers when it comes to implementing web standards and the developers hate it. Most regular users couldn't care less and have every right to not care.
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Well, that makes sense. But then why is a new browser a good thing - it's yet one more test case for web developers.
Regards,
Rob Philpott.
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...and throw away HTML at the same time.
Why do we need a "human readable" browser language at all?
Why not do it in a more transfer efficient manner and use a binary format instead? Getting rid of CSS, and HTML, and all that (probably obsolete) baggage could make the whole thing work better...and we would stand a chance of getting "browser independence" at the same time. I don;t know about you, but I'm sick and tired of having "special case" web code to deal with the various flavours and interpretations of HTML out there, and having to test everything on at least three different browsers...
Bad command or file name. Bad, bad command! Sit! Stay! Staaaay...
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Seconded. HTML is a vile curse on the earth.
Regards,
Rob Philpott.
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Let's throw JavaScript onto the same pile while we're at it.
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Horrible Terrible Moronic Language
Crappy Stupid Sunshines
Just Another Vile Awful Script
Did you ever see history portrayed as an old man with a wise brow and pulseless heart, waging all things in the balance of reason?
Is not rather the genius of history like an eternal, imploring maiden, full of fire, with a burning heart and flaming soul, humanly warm and humanly beautiful?
--Zachris Topelius
Training a telescope on one’s own belly button will only reveal lint. You like that? You go right on staring at it. I prefer looking at galaxies.
-- Sarah Hoyt
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Oh f*** yes, chuck the whole web stack and start again, do it right, machines are fast enough to render as you design (well almost). Give the poor bloody users a decent UI and the developers something that make a modicum of sense.
Never underestimate the power of human stupidity
RAH
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I have a different set of opinion. Although, I completely understand the pain as I am also going through the same as yours.
1. Let's keep HTML the same and work on better GZip/compression system while transfer via network.
2. W3C should force browsers to implement the standard.
3. Human readable HTML is good because it helped much while debugging via. Developer Tools, Fiddler, etc. It also helps to understand the request and response quite easily.
I think of 2 solutions:
We should have only ONE widely accepted browser for all purpose.
OR
all browsers should follow same W3C standards for HTML, CSS and JavaScript.
Life is a computer program and everyone is the programmer of his own life.
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Anurag Gandhi wrote: Human readable HTML is good because it helped much while debugging via. Developer Tools, Fiddler, etc
So...you debug your C# (or VB) by looking at the native binary or IL code then? I use a specific tool for that which lets me produce the code at a high level and translate it to a more efficient low level for actual execution. I then debug it in the high level language and let the system sort out the low level for me.
Anurag Gandhi wrote: We should have only ONE widely accepted browser for all purpose
You want a monopoly? That doesn't help improvements: the poor quality of existsing browsers is what got us the much better ones we have today!
Anurag Gandhi wrote: all browsers should follow same W3C standards for HTML, CSS and JavaScript.
They do. Just they interpret it differently, because it isn't a "true" standard - it's an evolved, hacked, broken, extended mess that never intended to be what it has ended up as.
The only reason it was human readable at all was because it made it easy to write in a text editor!
Bad command or file name. Bad, bad command! Sit! Stay! Staaaay...
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OriginalGriff wrote: you debug your C# (or VB) by looking at the native binary or IL code then? I use a specific tool for that
Agreed, but debugging human readable code seems quite easier in client server architecture. I understand you are among the top developers, but I have seen people struggling even writing HTML. (I know thats a different story. )
OriginalGriff wrote: You want a monopoly?
I really didn't mean that. I meant that all companies should use same open source browser and stop creating/continuing the crap versions of his own. Similar to JQuery which is widely accepted library for all companies/development organization. It might create a security breach but I am sure there should be a way to handle it.
OriginalGriff wrote: They do. Just they interpret it differently,
Agreed. But even some latest browsers have there specific CSS 3 code and they haven't implemented W3C yet.
Life is a computer program and everyone is the programmer of his own life.
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Anurag Gandhi wrote: Agreed, but debugging human readable code seems quite easier in client server architecture
Why? Why not have a "debug browser" in the same way we have a "windows debugger"?
That way, the code is only visible to those who actually need it (and by preference have the source code handy as well) - security improves, execution speed improves, debug facilities improve, etc....
Bad command or file name. Bad, bad command! Sit! Stay! Staaaay...
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