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Always obliged
Nick Polyak
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My opinion:
His statement is just a link to support something he believes in. I've seen much worse insults and attacks on cultures, beliefs, and opinions here in the lounge, directly and indirectly. In some cases, they flat out refuse to "agree to disagree" or move on. As long as it is not an active attack on someone, everyone's entitled to their opinion. Otherwise, where do we draw the line? No political debate, no joke, or anything non-IT could be discussed here since it is "attacking" someone else's belief.
If we're to ban his sig, I request the following words be banned from this site: shiite, Lesbanese, BFE (Egypt), and philistine. Note the trend. Someone in the recent past tried using the term Syrian(ac) in a derogatory way as well.  
Shrug and move on.
We need a shrug emoticon.
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Bassam Abdul-Baki wrote: everyone's entitled to their opinion
Absolutely.
The issue, which seems to always get pushed to the back, is that the lounge isn't for political or religious discussions. We have the soapbox for that. I know, however, that the Soapbox doesn't get the attention some people want it to have. They want more exposure for their time on the soapbox and so bring the discussions into the Lounge.
It's like asking someone to respect a house and remove their shoes when they come in, yet a few keep tromping through in their muddy boots.
Bassam Abdul-Baki wrote: If we're to ban his sig,
Again, the point isn't his sig. It's where he's using it. Further, it's not words that get banned, it's the context in which they are used.
I do, however, appreciated the concept of a slippery slope. Nobody wants that.
cheers
Chris Maunder
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The thing is, his signature isn't abusive. The topic however is a hot one and people will always think it's abusive if it doesn't automatically support their opinion.
Setting different rules for each forum is the right choise. You either have to start having separate sigs for each forum, delete them entirely, or accept that if they're allowed in any one (Soapbox), they should be accepted for all. If his sig was in the Soapbox as a message, it would be a hot topic and marked as spam incorrectly. If his post or signature was actively condemning someone, then I agree it should be removed.
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cheers
Chris Maunder
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^This hits the nail on the head.
Is having a link to a political article or petition in a sig the same thing as creating a post on a political topic? I don't think it's the same thing: unlike a post that will get read along with the rest of the thread, a link in a sig says nothing unless you click on it.
Also, if it's OK to have the sig in the soapbox but not other forums, is there some kind of mechanism to allow the sig in one forum but not the others? Does there need to be? Is the fact that the sig is going to show up outside of the soapbox enough to ask for the sig to be removed entirely?
If he was posting political statements in the wrong forums I'd see that as a clear-cut violation, but it's a bit different with sigs. Does he really need to have that in his sig? No, but does anyone need a sig anyway? If it's getting this messy, maybe they should just be done away with.
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Chris Maunder wrote: I've asked him to remove the signature
What was the response?
On this site, your word is law. If you ask someone to remove or change their signature for any reason, the user must comply. If they don't like your reasons, they're free to go elsewhere.
If they refuse to cooperate and follow your rules, even after you've had a word with them, then I don't see how they can continue to be a part of the site.
"These people looked deep within my soul and assigned me a number based on the order in which I joined."
- Homer
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I'll let you hunt for the non-response yourself. And yes, I can ban someone, but while I own the hardware and software, I don't own you guys. This is your community too. You're all clever, you all have great insights that I may have missed, and I want to hear as many differing views as possible. I also want you all to understand why we make certain decisions when we do, so talking it through first is never a bad idea.
cheers
Chris Maunder
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Richard Deeming wrote: On this site, your word is law.
And that is exactly the way to do it.
Setting up processes/rules/laws to govern what may and may not be done introduces a never-ending stream of problems, because what is written can be intentionally misread and misrepresented -- and there are always plenty of people who just love misreading and misrepresenting stuff, to give themselves imaginary rights to treat others badly.
I wanna be a eunuchs developer! Pass me a bread knife!
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Mark_Wallace wrote: Richard Deeming wrote: On this site, your word is law.
And that is exactly the way to do it.
Setting up processes/rules/laws to govern what may and may not be done introduces a never-ending stream of problems, because what is written can be intentionally misread and misrepresented -- and there are always plenty of people who just love misreading and misrepresenting stuff, to give themselves imaginary rights to treat others badly.
And there you go.
Someone has decided to flag my above posting as abuse.
The question we need to ask appears to be: Does CP need people who behave like that?
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Munchies_Matt wrote: With people like him around how can you expect fair play
Everyone is having fair play even if i am here since 2 years 3 months. If you are not able to, thats your personal problem i think.
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And I have been here for what, 8 years? And in that time I have seen plenty of mobocratic behaviour.
--edit--
make that almost 19 years.
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Munchies_Matt wrote: And I have been here for what, 8 years?
Looking at your profile, soon it will become 'i was there for 8 years...' 
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This isn't my first account by the way. My original one was created in 2005.
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Munchies_Matt wrote: See how he claims he has the right to express himself yet has decided others don't?
Everybody feels that way; it's part of the human condition.
Grown-ups are aware of it and can deal with it, though.
Don't you think that right now would be a good time to quit winding people up for a while?
Don't push people into making decisions that everyone will regret.
I wanna be a eunuchs developer! Pass me a bread knife!
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Mark_Wallace wrote: Someone has decided to flag my above posting as abuse
Yeah, the same person responsible for mis-flagging a ton of messages. I'm adding code specifically for his enjoyment.
cheers
Chris Maunder
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I never get to work on code that would be that much fun to do.
I wanna be a eunuchs developer! Pass me a bread knife!
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Chris, you've already replied to my post on the thread in Soapbox, but I wanted to record my vote here.
I have no problem with Matt's sig. Having said that, it's not something that I'd use and in Matt's shoes I'd change it. I'm not Matt though and I don't want him to read that as applying pressure for him to do so.
Thanks for tackling this and for speaking not only to Matt, but also to the parties involved in the down-voting.
Life is like a s**t sandwich; the more bread you have, the less s**t you eat.
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Chris Maunder wrote: aren't interested in a person who just wants to increase my workload without giving back anything to the software developer world
I must remember to stop answering Windows Kernel questions then lest I be too useful. 
Chris Maunder wrote: a link to an online petition that is clearly political, religious and divisive
That's one way of looking at it. The other is that its a request to enforce international law.
So pretty much the entire issue of extremist Islam, which is killing people right now, all round the world, stems from Israel and me like many other people, jews aswell[^], think that returning to the 67 borders with recognition of Palestine and Israel on both sides, and internationally would go a long way to achieving peace (in fact this is Hamas' new position).
So actually I think this petition is fairly important and might help the world achieve peace.
If that's offensive to anyone then I am surprised.
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Rules #4 of the lounge: No politics (including enviro-politics[^]), no sex, no religion. This is a community for software development. There are plenty of other sites that are far more appropriate for these discussions. Or if you must, use the Back Room[^] - but enter at your own risk.
It's very, very simple.
cheers
Chris Maunder
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Is a sig a discussion? You allow swear words in sigs, but not in posts in the lounge. Clearly the two re different.
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NO, but you're putting your political message, regardless of how passively you present it, into every single post, even if it is not an appropriate forum for such statements.
Oh, and changing your sig to a picture that is CLEARLY meant for Chris is not going to win you any friends here.
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Regarding your first paragraph: I fully agree. But same you can do on the Profile, ok much more hidden, but possible. In worst case with an special user name/Profile/Picture.
Bruno
modified 19-Jan-21 21:04pm.
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I think the picture is meant for the univoter. At least I hope so...
If your actions inspire others to dream more, learn more, do more and become more, you are a leader.-John Q. Adams
You must accept one of two basic premises: Either we are alone in the universe, or we are not alone in the universe. And either way, the implications are staggering.-Wernher von Braun
Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former.-Albert Einstein
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