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"Windows used to use the insert and delete keys with shift (I think)" ... it always has done, and 99% of the time it's shift/delete shift/insert that I use for cut/paste. I even use it for copy (with text) by cutting and immediately pasting, then pasting where I want the copy... just find that easier than the rather awkward ctrl-c / ctrl-v combinations (getting my little finger "lower" on the keyboard than my index finger).
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I had to use an application where the old CUA keys were the only way to defeat the Ctrl+C protection - or, more probably, bug. 
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OH, the humanity!
My favourite Appleism was when working with my BIL (a now reformed, but then Apple nut). His hard disk became full and he asked for my help:
Delete some files: Operation failed - disk full
Move some files to floppy disk (yes, it was a while back): Operation failed - disk full
Let's try editing a file to reduce its size: You guessed!
I told him "You have a very effective door stop there!"
Life is like a s**t sandwich; the more bread you have, the less s**t you eat.
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Been there, done that. I only needed to download a file, and put it on a USB stick. I had to look up all the steps in Safari. Finder? Copy&Paste ?  Even the trafic light instead of the cross to close a window was disturbing.
~RaGE();
I think words like 'destiny' are a way of trying to find order where none exists. - Christian Graus
Entropy isn't what it used to.
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There is a certain amount of who moved my cheese involved so having to try to filter through that and some actual deficiencies. The traffic lights did jar (especially against the rest of the UI, which manages to look pruttty) , but no biggie. The simple task of moving files, or even seeing a folder structure, however, seems unnecessarily obscure.
Alberto Brandolini: The amount of energy necessary to refute bullshit is an order of magnitude bigger than to produce it.
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Rage wrote: I only needed to download a file, and put it on a USB stick. I had to look up all the steps in Safari.
Surely you've heard of drag and drop? 
Rage wrote: Even the trafic light instead of the cross to close a window was disturbing.
Never mind. I see I'm dealing with a crazy person. 
Government is not reason; it is not eloquent; it is force. Like fire, it is a dangerous servant and a fearful master. ~ George Washington
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Mike Mullikin wrote: drag and drop
This assumes:
1. You know where to drag from, e.g. where the downloaded file was saved -> did not appear, had to look with that "Finder"
2. You know where to drop -> no appearance of usb as mass media in the "Finder", but as an icon on the desktop
About as intuitive as cutting a tree with a bread knife.
Mike Mullikin wrote: I see I'm dealing with a crazy person.
Is it really necessary to put it on the wrong side of the window, and making a permutation of the buttons ? 
~RaGE();
I think words like 'destiny' are a way of trying to find order where none exists. - Christian Graus
Entropy isn't what it used to.
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Rage wrote: You know where to drag from, e.g. where the downloaded file was saved
By default, to the "Downloads" folder - exactly the same as Windows.
Rage wrote: You know where to drop -> no appearance of usb as mass media in the "Finder", but as an icon on the desktop
Damn! You're right! How horrible. Way better to pop-up a dialog to the user asking them what they want to do.  Was it really that different that you couldn't figure it out? BTW - When I connect a USB stick it shows up on the desktop AND in Finder. Looks like it's controllable via a Finder preference.
Rage wrote: Is it really necessary to put it on the wrong side of the window, and making a permutation of the buttons ?
You'll want to ask Microsoft. Apple had their GUI first...
Government is not reason; it is not eloquent; it is force. Like fire, it is a dangerous servant and a fearful master. ~ George Washington
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Mike Mullikin wrote: xactly the same as Windows.
I am a Total Commander user, so basically never use an explorer or any of the Windows "folder". Experience taught me that putting anything in windows folders is the best way to loose data.
So spontaneously, this is certainly the last place I would have looked for that file. I found it by looking up the path in the properties, or whatever this is called on OS X.
Mike Mullikin wrote: Was it really that different that you couldn't figure it out?
Do you mean that seriously ? How on Earth should I know that there is an icon on the desktop for mass storage media, and that this is the only way to access it ??? Who goes over the desktop to access files ?
Mike Mullikin wrote: When I connect a USB stick it shows up on the desktop AND in Finder
Well, I am so glad it worked for you, bu it did not for me.
So call me dumb if you want -- because this is exactly what you are heading for -- but nothing here was intuitive to me and it took me ten damn minutes to download that file and put it on that USB stick.
~RaGE();
I think words like 'destiny' are a way of trying to find order where none exists. - Christian Graus
Entropy isn't what it used to.
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I give up.
BTW - Your username is apropos.
Government is not reason; it is not eloquent; it is force. Like fire, it is a dangerous servant and a fearful master. ~ George Washington
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This must be one of the most subtle trolling I have ever seen here. You may go now, your work is done.
~RaGE();
I think words like 'destiny' are a way of trying to find order where none exists. - Christian Graus
Entropy isn't what it used to.
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Rage wrote: This must be one of the most subtle trolling I have ever seen here.
It likely seems subtle because I'm not trolling (by any definition). However... the OP and some of the responses (yours in particular) are definitely trolling.
Government is not reason; it is not eloquent; it is force. Like fire, it is a dangerous servant and a fearful master. ~ George Washington
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Rage wrote: nothing here was intuitive to me
Thing is, it's not intuitive on most operating systems - just that you've learned over the years how to use one, and now try to use another with the expectation of it working the same - and it doesn't.
Sit an experienced windows 7 user in front of Windows 8 and they are more flummoxed - nothing is intuitive about (for example) pressing Windows-C, selecting Settings (FFS) then Power, then Shut Down - but once you have used it for a while, you get used to it and it becomes second nature.
Judging something inferior because it is different is racism, surely 
PooperPig - Coming Soon
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_Maxxx_ wrote: Thing is, it's not intuitive on most operating systems - just that you've
learned over the years how to use one
I think that some of the older UIs were a lot more intuitive than the new ones. Heck, if you look at some of the basic GTK based UIs, they're a whole heck of a lot more intuitive than the newer, more complex ones. One of the principles of good UI design I learned some time ago was not to hide things, even when they weren't available. That way the user knew where it was from seeing it, even if disabled. I don't think new UI's really apply some of those old principles anymore, instead they hide layers and show you what they think you want to see or should see without really considering that what you want to see is really task specific (although Linux is really doing a good job of this recently).
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Did you know that:
- you can shut down your Windows machine by shortly pressing the power button
- it is hard to buy a decent, but cheap keyboard without power keys
- you can shut down your Windows machine by pressing Alt+F4 on the desktop - common user habit, closing all windows before shutdown 
but all the above is obsolete knowledge since there is more laptops at the hands of the people not living under a system administrator, and just closing the lid do the trick.
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Peter Adam wrote: you can shut down your Windows machine by shortly pressing the power button
Yes I did
Peter Adam wrote: it is hard to buy a decent, but cheap keyboard without power keys
I just googled and picked two keyboards at random from those that came up - neither had power keys. Not too hard, then!
Peter Adam wrote: you can shut down your Windows machine by pressing Alt+F4 on the desktop - common user habit, closing all windows before shutdown
Yes I knew that - though I disagree about it being a common user habit.
I don't see how this is relevant to the discussion, though. Are you suggesting that it is more user-discoverable to use those methods ?
PooperPig - Coming Soon
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drag + drop also assumes that both source and destination are visible at the same time. On Windows (haven't tried on a mac) the display scrolls up/down if you hover at the top or bottom, but that tends to be slow anyway. If the source/destination are in different folder structures then it can be virtually impossible to drag/drop, and the only options are using the keyboard or menus. In this situation on Windows I'll either right-click the folder or use the menu key. Have really only used Mac for cross-browser compatibilty testing so, thankfully, have never had to do it there. Which is probably just as well, since I have a Mac mini and am not shelling out a huge amount on a mac-specific keyboard I only use once in a blue moon. I have a Windows USB keyboard attached, which doesn't have a command key and the Windows key doesn't seem to work as command...
Windows Explorer is getting worse and worse with age, and more and more confusing. What with Favourites, and Libraries as well as the "proper" Computer view, there are multiple routes to the same physical location. Add in shortcuts and aliases and what you see is definitely not what you've got. I've ended up moving stuff into the same folder it came from before now. Bring back File Manager!
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Keith Barrow wrote: Hell, using the terminal seems to be the easiest way to get stuff done.
Just as with pretty much every other operating system, including Windows.
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 True.
Alberto Brandolini: The amount of energy necessary to refute bullshit is an order of magnitude bigger than to produce it.
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It's like a sandwich shop I used to go to they had a big sign hanging prominently behind the counter;
If you want it your way go to Burger King.
New version: WinHeist Version 2.1.0 Beta
Have you ever just looked at someone and knew the wheel was turning but the hamster was dead?
Trying to understand the behavior of some people is like trying to smell the color 9.
I'm not crazy, my reality is just different than yours!
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One thing I have really learned to appreciate about windows is the context menu.
If you're in a new program and don't know what you can do, right click, give me some ideas.
I'm sure apples are great to use once you get familiar with them, however, I have never found them intuitive.
In college, ohhh.... the late 90's I was in a computer lab programming.
I saved my program to my 3.5 inch floppy drive, and I go to eject the disk...
Awesome, there's a button right below (or maybe above I don't remember) the drive, so I press it.
Yes, I did ignore the fact that it had the universal icon for power, and I turned the computer off.
Well how the hell do you get the disk out then?
After asking the lab manager, I was told I need to drag the floppy drive on the desktop to the trash...
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Been there done exactly that.
And of course the diskette was corrupt afterwards.
Intuitive my ass!
That's truth by repetition.
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I have left all Apple when Quick Time became the de facto video player of the early web. Seriously, a Sokol radio like volume control[^], hidden in a drawer, from the kings of the UI/UX?
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My wife's school system for some reason has gone to the silver boxes. I had the opportunity recently to help her insert several pictures into a document she was creating. I couldn't find a way to get to the Word menu using the keyboard, so I had to keep moving my hands to use the track pad to perform the operation. After about 5 I said enough of this the rest will have to wait until I can get to work and ask some of my coworkers how to do this simple task on a mac.
After some searching on their part, because they had never tried either, I finally have the keystrokes needed to access the menu in Word. Fn+Ctrl+F2. Just about as obvious as Ctrl+Atl+Delete.
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