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There are only 10 types of people in the world, those who understand binary and those who don't.
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OriginalGriff wrote: posted his tutors email so we could send the solution directly for him
Oh, yeah, I had forgotten about that one. 
You'll never get very far if all you do is follow instructions.
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OriginalGriff wrote: his tutors email so we could send the solution directly for him.
Oh! my! I wish I had seen that one! His tutor would have been surprised at my solution!
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OriginalGriff wrote: Asking a question is fine: but I do draw the line when they post the actual homework question (complete with the question numbers, and the date it is due to be handed in occasionally) and ask for code!
Give them code that doesn't work. 
The report of my death was an exaggeration - Mark Twain
Simply Elegant Designs JimmyRopes Designs
I'm on-line therefore I am.
JimmyRopes
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Persuading others to do your work for you is a wonderful skill to learn.
Some men are born mediocre, some men achieve mediocrity, and some men have mediocrity thrust upon them.
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 Indeed. Most bosses have figured that out.
There are only 10 types of people in the world, those who understand binary and those who don't.
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chriselst wrote: Persuading others to do your work for you is a wonderful skill to learn.
Essential if you are going to manage a project. 
The report of my death was an exaggeration - Mark Twain
Simply Elegant Designs JimmyRopes Designs
I'm on-line therefore I am.
JimmyRopes
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Easy. When the responders started giving away the answers, giving the OP, literally, "copy'n'paste this code" answers.
Is the OP going to learn from having their code written for them? Absolutely not.
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Quote: Is the OP going to learn from having their code written for them? Absolutely not.
My point was that when someone does show effort if it looks like homework often the first response is to attack. It shouldn't be that way.
There are only 10 types of people in the world, those who understand binary and those who don't.
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I've seen a ton of homework questions. Rarely have I seen the effort put in by the OP, but I'm happy to see it when it's there. I still won't give a code answer, but I will tell the person where they are going wrong and what they should be looking at/researching.
But, of course, there's a bunch of people who don't understand the difference between effort and the lack thereof and just attack anyway. I don't see that too much, but when I do that person gets attacked.
But, much more prevelent is the problem where the responders just give the answer in code without discussing what's going on or why. I think it's more of an exposition of the responders ability to answer such simple questions than it is of helping the person out or teaching them how to do the research to answer their own question. It's these people I just cannot stand.
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Dave Kreskowiak wrote: I still won't give a code answer,
You and me both. I prefer to point them in the direction they need to go and let them get there themselves...
What I really hate is when I am doing that, and someone else comes in and posts a full code block...
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If I have the power, I remove those posts or "edit" them to get rid of the code.
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I hope with the permission of the responder.
Gus Gustafson
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Dave Kreskowiak wrote: Absolutely not.
Not sure I agree with that.
Some would be helped by that. They will look at it and figure it out.
Others might be helped because sometimes just getting anything to run at all can be a major part of the problem and frustration.
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Yeah, there's way too many "students" that just copy'n'paste the code and turn it in without even trying to understand it.
It's real obvious when they can't pass the tests in class, right after they just turned in the project.
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Agree wholeheartedly with you on this one.
Any question asked should be treated essentially the same; if the OP asks for help, why not give it?
If responding to a guru or a novice, surely the skill in answering is to not just provide the answer, but some framework so the OP understands - which at the end of the day is what it's all about whether for a student or expert.
Sure, some posts will just be "please give me code to ..." but whether for homework or the next big thing in mobile apps, the response needs to be guidance toward the goal, and not just the solution on a platter.
When I have taught programming I actively encourage the students to look for help online if they are stuck; I usually guide them where to look, and monitor those resources and respond myself when I can - but it is astonishing how one can explain something twenty ways to a blank-faced student, then someone else (as often as not another student) can say "It's like, you know, when that thing gets bigger, and like the other thing, you know?" and the original student's face lights up with understanding!
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_Maxxx_ wrote: it is astonishing how one can explain something twenty ways to a blank-faced student, then someone else (as often as not another student) can say "It's like, you know, when that thing gets bigger, and like the other thing, you know?" and the original student's face lights up with understanding!
Sounds like, you know, when trying to teach you should, you know, learn to speak in terms that can be understood, you know what I am saying. 
The report of my death was an exaggeration - Mark Twain
Simply Elegant Designs JimmyRopes Designs
I'm on-line therefore I am.
JimmyRopes
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Cast your mind back to school and remember the teachers who tried that?
** memories of the French teacher saying things like "that's groovy, kids" **
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It's not about homework per se. It is really all about whether the question meets the guidelines of the Q&A. Very often homework questions simply do not. I'm also a bit old fashioned and believe in the concept of mutual respect. If someone shows no evidence of having learned anything about that I'm not above giving them a small reminder.
Peter Wasser
"The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always so certain of themselves, and wiser people so full of doubts." - Bertrand Russell
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Great point, they do deserve help as long as they are also putting in effort on their end. I think we all agree that the "codz pleez" crowd should be ignored at best.
There is something else to consider as well. If we tell all of the students who come here and ask questions that we won't help them (often in less kind words), they will go somewhere else to get help. If they never come back, this community will eventually shrivel up and die.
I'm here because I was able to get some questions answered early on, then I started reading the lounge, and I eventually started submitting a few articles. If I were rejected in those early questions I'd probably be contributing somewhere else entirely.
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There are only 10 types of people in the world, those who understand binary and those who don't.
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Homework is a reflection of your own skill.
If you do not have the skill then by asking someone else to help, you are just taking credit for something you did not do.
Programming is not about getting a result.
Programming evolves to quickly to make getting one result worth anything.
A only good programmer is one that can learn everything they do not know.
Learn to bash your head against the wall, answer your problem with others forums that are close to your problem and learn to manipulate the code.
Only then will you be a master.
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RyanDev wrote: Whether it is homework, regular work, or hobby if someone asks a question they should all be treated the same. Help if you can.
I agree with that, unfortunately, many homework questions (here and elsewhere) are very poor and only want a full solution when what they should be asking for is just some guidance.
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If these chaps team up with the velociraptors, we're doomed...
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