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Simon O'Riordan from UK wrote: The second is that to shut an application I needed alt-F4, there didn't appear to be any controls, just differences in focus.
You can also drag with the mouse from the top of the screen down (or swipe down with a touchscreen) instead of ALT+F4 
And driver integretion has been quite good since Windows 7 (was already in with Vista I believe althought there weren't that many drivers integrated back then)
Yet, I still don't like those tiles... I have it installed on one box and I've pretty much deleted all of the apps set per default on the start screen, and I've changed all those that I left there to the small box. (can't stand those ugly big ones). I still think it's a tablet only OS (where it works well) but is damn ugly on desktop...
[Edit]
And btw. you can change the login to a local login. But you'll have to enter your hotmail/live login details for every application that uses the live integration (like the Windows Store or Xbox Live Games, etc.)
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Could just be the 'shock of the new'?
I really have no objection to the tiles, since I've been using Unity for years, which is a less bold use of screen real estate.
Swiping? I should have guessed. All the tablets and smartphones I've used have this.
Maybe it's just me, but I like it.
From what you say, you'd probably love Unity-based Ubuntu.
As for drivers, my 7 box still needs to mess about with searching online through a cable before it will fix up my wifi dongle, but once done it's fine.
8.1 is the first windows I've ever had which matches Linux for convenience.
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Shock of the new? hm... I don't know. I think it eats up way to much space. It's difficult to find specific apps you might not use very often. And at least at work I fire up my applications by hotkeys anyway. And as long as there are apps running only in desktop mode and some running in metro mode it looks pretty messy... I expect every application to behave the same... Maybe I'll be forced one time to embrace it, but that will probably be only when the Windows 7 lifetime ends or anything else forces me to use Windows 8.x... 
Yeah, Windows 7 might not have all the drivers included. But if it can't find a driver it's still pretty easy to search for them through Windows Update. Probably a newer Wifi dongle might not be included because it might not have been available when Windows 7 was released
Well I never really got around Linux/Unix very well... And I don't think it goes well with Visual Studio and the games I like to play occasionally
Last time I tried it finding the right drivers for all the devices wasn't that easy and I think the GPU driver wasn't really optimized. I always felt like the GUI wasn't as fluent as on Windows. (Starting with moving Windows around etc.)
Besides, although office suites like LibreOffice and OpenOffice might provide most of the features of MS Office I don't really like them.
I think I might stick to Windows 7 a little while longer and wait what Windows 8.2 or any other future version might bring
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My thoughts exactly: wait for Win9...unless they do something really good, I'll skip this version completely, like I did Vista.
Never underestimate the power of stupid things in large numbers
--- Serious Sam
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Simon O'Riordan from UK wrote: The first thing is the need for a Hotmail account to log into my own computer
You don't actually need this. Unfortunately it's not made clear that you don't need it.
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Yeah, they pretty much force it upon you when setting up Windows 8. Probably because it's "for the conveniance of the user"... like if I'd want to type in a password each time I want to use a tablet...
Oh and the best part? If you used your live login with 8.0 and changed it to a local user: the update to Windows 8.1 just changed it back to the live login... 
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There is an option to install/activate/update to 8.1 without creating an MS account; but it's hidden in a way that's not easy to find (even if you are a computer geek) unless you've got a second computer with Google and know to search for it.
Did you ever see history portrayed as an old man with a wise brow and pulseless heart, waging all things in the balance of reason?
Is not rather the genius of history like an eternal, imploring maiden, full of fire, with a burning heart and flaming soul, humanly warm and humanly beautiful?
--Zachris Topelius
Training a telescope on one’s own belly button will only reveal lint. You like that? You go right on staring at it. I prefer looking at galaxies.
-- Sarah Hoyt
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Nicholas Marty wrote: like if I'd want to type in a password each time I want to use a tablet
If you have a touch device, you can use a picture password instead. That's what I do on both of my Windows RT devices.
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1) you don't have to login that way. you can use a local account if you want just like in Win7. they do push that option pretty strongly though, but you can avoid it. I use Win8.1 with only a local account and it works fine.
2) when you say "close an app" with Alt-F4 do you mean a windows store app? (new fullscreen apps). You can run all the same destop apps as before in Win7 which close normally. Once you find the desktop in Win8.1 its pretty much just like Win7 (minus having to deal with putting everything on the taskbar and/or adding in your own start menu of sorts with a toolbar. Despite them putting the start screen and new style apps front and center you can use Win8 without really even using those.
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What can I say? I didn't buy 8.1 because I want to imitate a twenty-year old window paradigm. I like 8.1. It's much better than 7, which is better than geriatric X Pee.
Apart from my slight reservations, I like it better than desktop; desktop in Fedora Gnome 3 was rendered useless by insane security obsessiveness, desktop in Ubuntu is nice(2.5 Generation), 8.1 is a 3rd Generation GUI.
I have to have a Windows machine for compatibility with work projects; the ability to get to the desktop was certainly nice when running VS2008 setup from explorer, but now it even has it's own tile, as do the individual LibreOffice applications I also installed.
Obviously if I'd been really serious about it as a main box, I'd have looked for advice such as you give about local login, but hey, this is quite nice as it logs me into Skype, Hotmail and the Apps Store automatically, just like a phone or tablet.
This is the first evidence I've seen in a decade that MS is really trying to make our lives better. And I think that they've done a good job.
"Shall I refuse my dinner because I do not fully understand the process of digestion?" - Oliver Heaviside
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yes, just trying to help and let you know of the options available to you. if you're new to Win8 it can appear that everything has been replaced with a whole new paradigm when in fact it hasn't. the new paradigm is there but the old one is too right beside it. depends on how you're using the machine of course. as a developer, I skip right past the start screen and store apps and it works just like (almost) Win7.
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Day three of 8.1 and I'm not quite so happy; browser and Skype unstable, failing, crashing.
I applied updates manually and everything was happy though.
I guess it is still Windows.
Now Ubuntu would have updated at install time; and later on it would have informed me immediately if updates were available, without any of this 'Do not switch off' mullarky on power down.
Kind of spoiled it for me. Yesterday I was chuffed, today not so much, it's just another wedge of cash sacrificed to the not-good-enough.Obviously as a dev, it now does everything I want, but as a 'consumer', definitely too much monkey business. 
Perhaps I'll regain my confidence in how shiny it is over the next couple of sessions.
As for the start screen, I really love what it did to my Visual Studio, it broke out all the different programmes into tiles, so gone are the days of looking for Visual Studio Command Prompt, or GUIDGen etc.
modified 14-Jan-14 3:03am.
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I'm pretty much with you on this one. The thing that impressed me the most was how much faaaaster 8 is compared to 7/XP (on the same spec h/w (I'm talking work desktops here). I just installed Classicshell to rid myself of the tile stuff as it's worthless in our environment. 
If your neighbours don't listen to The Ramones, turn it up real loud so they can.
“We didn't have a positive song until we wrote 'Now I Wanna Sniff Some Glue!'” ― Dee Dee Ramone
"The Democrats want my guns and the Republicans want my porno mags and I ain't giving up either" - Joey Ramone
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Or installing a third party utility that acts as a start menu - I use classic shell (although I avoid their explorer windows - as usual choose your install options carefully). Then you get to have your cake and eat it.
"If you don't fail at least 90 percent of the time, you're not aiming high enough."
Alan Kay.
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yes, the addons do look nice. I haven't tried them yet, so far the custom toolbar + pinning stuff to the task bar has allowed me to pretty much completely avoid the start screen
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Simon O'Riordan from UK wrote: The first thing is the need for a Hotmail account to log into my own computer;
big brother, slightly moreso than Android and gmail, but not obtrusive.
That's not quite true. If you want to have your configuration backed up and be able to roam it, you need a Microsoft Account (formerly Live ID), which can use any email address (my MS account's email address is a gmail account, though I'm moving away from gmail at this point). And I know you can create accounts that are strictly local -- no need to sign in with your MS Account.
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Movie Quote Of The Day
One, don't you ever touch me again. Two, don't you ever touch me again.
Which movie?
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Windows VIII
Never underestimate the power of stupid things in large numbers
--- Serious Sam
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OriginalGriff wrote: Windows VIII.I
FIFY
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The life of MC Hammer
if(this.signature != "")
{
MessageBox.Show("This is my signature: " + Environment.NewLine + signature);
}
else
{
MessageBox.Show("404-Signature not found");
}
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MC Hammer's life in film?
“That which can be asserted without evidence, can be dismissed without evidence.”
― Christopher Hitchens
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