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I think the southern states in the US in the 30s and 40s were equally as bad as SA at that time.
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Yes, I can see you thought that. By the way, Martin Luther King was in the South in the 60s.
There are only 10 types of people in the world, those who understand binary and those who don't.
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Yes, I know. I think the US might have improved during WWII (the racial situation).
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And if you go 100 years further back in time the US was questionably worse.
Politicians are always realistically manoeuvering for the next election. They are obsolete as fundamental problem-solvers.
Buckminster Fuller
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As far as I know slavery wasnt practised in SA.
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They aren't but the thing is Eric likes to argue but doesn't like to have a grown up argument and listen to both sides of the story
Every day, thousands of innocent plants are killed by vegetarians.
Help end the violence EAT BACON
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Did you just trot this lame and blanket statement out having read it on the internet somewhere?
Go on, now jujstify it, tell me how I have ignored the side of the black in SA?
Waiting....
(in vain I expect)
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No I wont Eric as I have had discussions with you before and if it is information that you don't want to hear then you normally do one of the following
1. dodge the question / information posed to you.
2. return with some derogatory comment.
3. ramble with your original statement until we give in and say you win.
Every day, thousands of innocent plants are killed by vegetarians.
Help end the violence EAT BACON
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So thats a no, you cant thrn. Just as a I thought, it was an empty and ill considered statement you made.
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Someone died! Quick piss on the grave before they get him in!
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How did you react when Bin Laden died?
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Doesn't seem like you read your own link.
"it would be unrealistic and wrong for African leaders to continue preaching peace and non-violence at a time when the government met our peaceful demands with force."
Comparing Mandela with bin Laden is beyond absurd.
Marc
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So one wrong deserves another does it?
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Erudite_Eric wrote: So one wrong deserves another does it?
No, a wrong deserves to be righted. The whole reason for the right to bear arms is so that the people have a means of defending themselves from a corrupt government.
Marc
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And a corrupt govt does not include innocent civilans.
Look, I think Tony Blair is a terrorist and war criminal and should be locked up for life you know. I am not biassed against Mandella, it is all people who inflict pain and suffering on others in pursuit of their political goals that I detest.
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Erudite_Eric wrote: t is all people who inflict pain and suffering on others in pursuit of their political goals that I detest.
I certainly empathize with that. There's a lot of pain and suffering, and not just because of direct "violence". For example, I think this gov't is causing lots of pain and suffering with it's f*** up health care system, lobbyists, etc.
Yes, ultimately, Ghandi had it right, really embracing non-violent resistance.
Marc
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Also peaceful protest wouild have gaine support from the whites. Not all south africans were fascists you know.
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Erudite_Eric wrote: Also peaceful protest wouild have gaine support from the whites.
Except they tried exactly that. And laws were passed to prevent them from doing exactly that.
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Marc Clifton wrote: Yes, ultimately, Ghandi had it right, really embracing non-violent resistance.
Unfortunately even Ghandi was not beyond a bit of political manipulation himself - on one occasion he threatened to starve himself to death knowing full well that if he did so there would be riots on the streets. Ambedkar, who incidentally did much more for the untouchables than Gandhi did, gave in and Gandhi had his way - hardly an act of non-violence.
Basically I find life is messy and complicated and claims of people who are completely pure and unblemished are what fairy tales are made of.
I prefer Philip Zimbardo's much more nuanced and down to earth take on heroes and villains www.lucifereffect.com/[^]
“That which can be asserted without evidence, can be dismissed without evidence.”
― Christopher Hitchens
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GuyThiebaut wrote: Basically I find life is messy and complicated and claims of people who are completely pure and unblemished are what fairy tales are made of.
Indeed. I'll take a look at the book too. Thanks!
Marc
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Erudite_Eric wrote: And a corrupt govt does not include innocent civilans.
Huh? Of course corrupt governments are likely to have innocent civilians. And even more likely to have civilians.
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Like I said,
He should be called Benighted_Eric 
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"Treason doth never prosper: what's the reason? Why if it prosper, none dare call it treason." - John Harrington
Did you ever see history portrayed as an old man with a wise brow and pulseless heart, waging all things in the balance of reason?
Is not rather the genius of history like an eternal, imploring maiden, full of fire, with a burning heart and flaming soul, humanly warm and humanly beautiful?
--Zachris Topelius
Training a telescope on one’s own belly button will only reveal lint. You like that? You go right on staring at it. I prefer looking at galaxies.
-- Sarah Hoyt
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He also did a remarkable amount of good in his life in the face opposition from an apartheid government. Apartheid is the real villain in all of this.
And today I am reminded also that the city I live in trolled the SA government in the mid-80s by renaming the street the South African consulate was on to Nelson Mandela Place. (I love Glasgow)
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