Survey Results

Re: Not for apps, not for applications; outsourcing part of your job is risky

10-Jun-13 2:43

"Apps"? Seriously?

Please, change it to "Applications" very, very quickly. The term has been hijacked by CEO's to denote code running on a phone; that's a bit limiting on a site like "CodeProject", since code runs on multiple platforms, including coffee-machines. "Apps" are a small portion of the entire market, focussing mainly on providing a UI for existing systems.

To answer, no, I don't like dependencies. Joel Spolsky explains why here[^], better than I ever could;

"The Excel development team will never accept it," he said. "You know their motto? 'Find the dependencies -- and eliminate them.'

Bastard Programmer from Hell Suspicious | :suss:

If you can't read my code, try converting it here[^]

H.Brydon10-Jun-13 10:15

H.Brydon

10-Jun-13 10:15

There's probably an app for that. Smile | :)

--
Harvey

Re: Not for apps, not for applications; outsourcing part of your job is risky

PhantomRick10-Jun-13 15:46

PhantomRick

10-Jun-13 15:46

Quote:
To answer, no, I don't like dependencies. Joel Spolsky explains why

First, the article is about using code or functionality that you do not build yourself, not data services. Second, his advice is not to outsource core functionality.

Quote:
The best advice I can offer:
If it's a core business function -- do it yourself, no matter what.

He actually recommends it for things outside your strengths.

Quote:
Pick your core business competencies and goals, and do those in house. If you're a software company, writing excellent code is how you're going to succeed. Go ahead and outsource the company cafeteria and the CD-ROM duplication. If you're a pharmaceutical company, write software for drug research, but don't write your own accounting package. If you're a web accounting service, write your own accounting package, but don't try to create your own magazine ads. If you have customers, never outsource customer service.

If I want to include how to find a place or show it on a map - thank you very much Google Maps.

Take note that this article was written 12 years ago. A lot has changed since then, to which I'm sure Joel would be the first to agree.

Re: Not for apps, not for applications; outsourcing part of your job is risky

Eddy Vluggen10-Jun-13 22:33

Re: Not for apps, not for applications; outsourcing part of your job is risky

10-Jun-13 22:33

PhantomRick wrote:
First, the article is about using code or functionality that you do not build yourself, not data services.

Explain me the difference; isn't a data-service simply a table/file/whateversource combined with some communications-code?

PhantomRick wrote:
Second, his advice is not to outsource core functionality.

Geolocation and the likes are often "core functionality", especially for "apps". I wouldn't go to the other extreme and recommend writing your own OS, since every piece of code that you write comes with a cost, in terms of maintenance.

PhantomRick wrote:
He actually recommends it for things outside your strengths.

Hooking up a datasource using a webservice should not be outside the strength of your average developer, nor would it be very costly to maintain it.

PhantomRick wrote:
If I want to include how to find a place or show it on a map - thank you very much Google Maps.

Sounds like you'd be depending on Google to me - which may or may not be an advantage. I see it as a disadvantage.

PhantomRick wrote:
Take note that this article was written 12 years ago.

Age is not an argument, since statements do not degrade over time.

PhantomRick wrote:
A lot has changed since then, to which I'm sure Joel would be the first to agree.

I suggest we ask him; there's probably a forum on there Smile | :)

Bastard Programmer from Hell Suspicious | :suss:

If you can't read my code, try converting it here[^]

CDP180210-Jun-13 19:28

10-Jun-13 19:28

Eddy Vluggen wrote:
To answer, no, I don't like dependencies. Joel Spolsky explains why here[^], better than I ever could;

Mickeysoft can explain that even better, just by once more killing some products you accidentally happen to use for some project and then throwing the next new thingy at you. The second or third time around it gets a bit tiresome to be thrown back with your project, just to be ready for the next strike. At some point there is no more progress, just adapting to the next random change.

Choosing your dependencies well and developing and maintaining a good codebase is the only way to stay on your feet.

Sent from my BatComputer via HAL 9000 and M5

I Have Found

W∴ Balboos, GHB10-Jun-13 1:58

W∴ Balboos, GHB

10-Jun-13 1:58

I have found it more reliable (and eminently more satisfying) to simply make up data as needed.*

No one (certainly not management) ever seems to have noticed.

For those of you interested in more technical details, I unfortunately cannot determine if random values or organized misinformation are more successful. Perhaps it's because no one every really looks?

* This data model, as you most certainly have already experienced, is in universal use by customer service call centers in India.

"The difference between genius and stupidity is that genius has its limits." - Albert Einstein

"As far as we know, our computer has never had an undetected error." - Weisert

"If you are searching for perfection in others, then you seek disappointment. If you are seek perfection in yourself, then you will find failure." - Balboos HaGadol Mar 2010

Re: I Have Found

CDP180210-Jun-13 19:10

10-Jun-13 19:10

Why not? Why try to store huge amounts of data when you can easily generate more than all computers in the world can ever store? I know you were being sarcastic, but generated data has significantly improved dome of my... apps.

Sent from my BatComputer via HAL 9000 and M5

Re: I Have Found

W∴ Balboos, GHB11-Jun-13 0:41

W∴ Balboos, GHB

11-Jun-13 0:41

more remote dependencies, out of one's control, that can bring down an application
analysis of data requests (profiling, snooping, etc.) implicit in using remote source
using a communal (and therefore hacker-attracting) data source
Possibility of being held hostage to the remote site's controlling entities (or new owner's) whims

"The difference between genius and stupidity is that genius has its limits." - Albert Einstein

"As far as we know, our computer has never had an undetected error." - Weisert

"If you are searching for perfection in others, then you seek disappointment. If you are seek perfection in yourself, then you will find failure." - Balboos HaGadol Mar 2010

We make machines

Joan M9-Jun-13 23:43

Joan M

9-Jun-13 23:43

They are typically disconnected from any network and usually not connected to the Internet unless they need remote technical support.

Therefore no...

[www.tamautomation.com] Robots, CNC and PLC machines for grinding and polishing.

We don't make apps

Kevin Drzycimski9-Jun-13 20:34

Kevin Drzycimski

9-Jun-13 20:34

Not everybody is a mobile app developer!

We don't make apps :agreed

Nelek9-Jun-13 22:31

Nelek

9-Jun-13 22:31

M.D.V.

If something has a solution... Why do we have to worry about?. If it has no solution... For what reason do we have to worry about?
Help me to understand what I'm saying, and I'll explain it better to you
Rating helpfull answers is nice, but saying thanks can be even nicer.

Surendra Adhikari SA11-Jun-13 2:04

Surendra Adhikari SA

11-Jun-13 2:04

I agree with 'Rating helpfull answers is nice, but saying thanks can be even nicer.'

Re: We don't make apps :agreed

Nelek11-Jun-13 23:38

Nelek

11-Jun-13 23:38

Have a look to http://www.codeproject.com/Messages/4581453/Id-like-to-report-myself.aspx[^]

M.D.V.

If something has a solution... Why do we have to worry about?. If it has no solution... For what reason do we have to worry about?
Help me to understand what I'm saying, and I'll explain it better to you
Rating helpful answers is nice, but saying thanks can be even nicer.

Nicolas Dorier9-Jun-13 22:42

Nicolas Dorier

9-Jun-13 22:42

I'm not sure the term "app" is anymore limited to mobile app.
"App" is cool "Application" is old and geek, but they mean the same thing nowadays.

Eddy Vluggen10-Jun-13 4:54

10-Jun-13 4:54

Nicolas Dorier wrote:
"App" is cool "Application" is old and geek

Ehr, no; "apps" are commonly used to describe phoney-code. It states something about the platform it's running on.

Nicolas Dorier wrote:
but they mean the same thing nowadays.

Only for management.

Bastard Programmer from Hell Suspicious | :suss:

If you can't read my code, try converting it here[^]

CDP180210-Jun-13 19:16

10-Jun-13 19:16

Eddy Vluggen wrote:
It states something about the platform it's running on.

Ahh, underpowered toy devices with limited resources?

Sent from my BatComputer via HAL 9000 and M5

chriselst9-Jun-13 23:14

chriselst

9-Jun-13 23:14

What do you make then?

“I believe that there is an equality to all humanity. We all suck.” Bill Hicks

CDP180210-Jun-13 19:18

10-Jun-13 19:18

'Apps' is the sound I make when someone punches me with his fist. When I work, I still write full grown programs which need a little more than any portable toy has to offer.

Sent from my BatComputer via HAL 9000 and M5

chriselst10-Jun-13 21:09

chriselst

10-Jun-13 21:09

App - short for Application Software, as distinct from System Software, a computer program that allows the user to do something useful.

“I believe that there is an equality to all humanity. We all suck.” Bill Hicks

Eddy Vluggen10-Jun-13 23:00