Survey Results

16-May-11 5:08

Jun Du wrote:
extensibility

Hahha

Yeah, the fact that we're writing our code in stone stops us from adding a pair of braces around new block of code.

And if someone has trouble remembering to add braces after inserting new lines should consider changing career.

Re: Since everyone brag about consistency and readability

Jun Du16-May-11 6:31

Jun Du

16-May-11 6:31

It's not that someone has trouble adding braces concerns me. That is taken care of by the compiler. Some developers tend to closes up their code (and mind) at the first iteration of implementation. As a side note, in reality, I didn't find many cases where one statement is enough.

Best,
Jun

Re: Since everyone brag about consistency and readability

Mladen Janković16-May-11 6:42

16-May-11 6:42

Jun Du wrote:
Some developers tend to closes up their code (and mind) at the first iteration
of implementation.

What a crock of horsesh*t.

Jun Du wrote:
As a side note, in reality, I didn't find many cases where one statement is
enough.

Apparently we're not living in the same realities then.

Re: Since everyone brag about consistency and readability

C^hris L^osinger16-May-11 11:41

C^hris L^osinger

16-May-11 11:41

Mladen Jankovic wrote:
And aren't we suppose to consistently try to minimize amount of code we write?

no.

image processing toolkits | batch image processing

Re: Since everyone brag about consistency and readability

Mladen Janković16-May-11 22:49

16-May-11 22:49

Good thing we're not working togather.

Re: Since everyone brag about consistency and readability

Kevin McFarlane21-May-11 6:25

Kevin McFarlane

21-May-11 6:25

Mladen Jankovic wrote:
aren't we suppose to consistently try to minimize amount of code we write?

Yes, but only if other things are equal, i.e., we don't decrease readability, maintainability and reliability.

Now, as it happens I don't consider the omission of parentheses is that big a deal. But if others feel it decreases readability and maintainability then that would trump "less code is better."

Kevin

Always, always

BillW3316-May-11 3:04

BillW33

16-May-11 3:04

I always wrap single line statements.
I also always put them on a seperate line to make it easier to read.

Just because the code works, it doesn't mean that it is good code.

OriginalGriff16-May-11 3:59

OriginalGriff

16-May-11 3:59

For me, it's not a readability thing - though that helps. I find it difficult to read this correctly:

if (aVariable > anotherVariable) yetAnotherVariable = 6;
aTotallyDifferentVariable = 7;

But the main reason I do it is because I have been bitten by problems caused by editors that don't auto-indent before:

if (aVariable > anotherVariable)
        yetAnotherVariable = 6;
        aTotallyDifferentVariable = 7;

Is not the same as

if (aVariable > anotherVariable)
        {
        yetAnotherVariable = 6;
        }
        aTotallyDifferentVariable = 7;

Real men don't use instructions. They are only the manufacturers opinion on how to put the thing together.

Manfred R. Bihy: "Looks as if OP is learning resistant."

Mladen Janković16-May-11 5:02

16-May-11 5:02

Heck, why don't you use few more pairs of braces, make a point and let it be more obvious:

if (aVariable > anotherVariable)
        {{{{{
        {{{{{
        {{{{{
        yetAnotherVariable = 6;
        }}}}}
        }}}}}
        }}}}}
        aTotallyDifferentVariable = 7;

OriginalGriff16-May-11 5:07

OriginalGriff

16-May-11 5:07

Let's not get carried away - 5 + 5 should be enough! Laugh | :laugh:

Have you seen what VS does with your code when you cut'n'paste?

void x()
    {
    if (aVariable > anotherVariable)
        {
            {
                {
                    {
                        {
                            {
                                {
                                    {
                                        {
                                            {
                                                {
                                                    {
                                                        {
                                                            {
                                                                {
                                                                yetAnotherVariable = 6;
                                                                }
                                                            }
                                                        }
                                                    }
                                                }
                                            }
                                        }
                                    }
                                }
                            }
                        }
                    }
                }
            }
        }
    aTotallyDifferentVariable = 7;
    }

Real men don't use instructions. They are only the manufacturers opinion on how to put the thing together.

Manfred R. Bihy: "Looks as if OP is learning resistant."

Mladen Janković16-May-11 5:25

16-May-11 5:25

cfff! cfff! cfff! cfff! pffr! pffr! cfff! BOOOM!

BillW3316-May-11 14:27

BillW33

16-May-11 14:27

Yes, that is a good point. To me readability includes easily being able to tell what the code is going to do Smile | :)

Just because the code works, it doesn't mean that it is good code.

No ifs and buts...

Nemanja Trifunovic16-May-11 2:24

16-May-11 2:24

Just to remind everybody: if-then-else considered harmful[^]

Just never use control structures, and wrapping becomes a non-issue $Shucks | :-\$

utf8-cpp

Re: No ifs and buts...

Nagy Vilmos16-May-11 3:44

Nagy Vilmos

16-May-11 3:44

A 1975 paper to justify your answer? per-lease!

Panic, Chaos, Destruction.
My work here is done.

or "Drink. Get drunk. Fall over." - P O'H

OK, I will win to day or my name isn't Ethel Crudacre! - DD Ethel Crudacre

Have a bit more patience with newbies. Of course some of them act dumb -- they're often *students*, for heaven's sake. -- (Terry Pratchett, alt.fan.pratchett)

Re: No ifs and buts...

Nemanja Trifunovic16-May-11 4:09

Only if they're really a single line [modified]

16-May-11 4:09

Meh, everybody knows all programming wisdom comes from Lisp, invented in 1958.

utf8-cpp

Gary Wheeler16-May-11 1:43

16-May-11 1:43

I'll do this:

if (condition) DoSomething();

but this is an abomination:

if (condition)
     DoSomething();

Also, if any part of the statement requires braces, then the entire statement uses braces, even if it can be done on a single line.

We once debugged a problem caused by someone inserting a line like this:

if (condition)
    InsertedSomethingOrOther();
    ...
    EvenMoreStuff();
    DoSomething()

The statement originally had braces, and during their editing they'd removed them at some point.

I'm pretty sure the body will never be found.

Software Zen: delete this;

modified on Monday, May 16, 2011 10:02 AM

Nemanja Trifunovic16-May-11 2:08

16-May-11 2:08

Gary Wheeler wrote:
if (condition)
InsertedSomethingOrOther();
DoSomething()

But how that can ever be a problem? Just look at the indentation - unless you are coding in Python, the indentation screams at you.

utf8-cpp

Gary Wheeler16-May-11 2:10

16-May-11 2:10

The call to DoSomething(); is now unconditional, instead of being part of the if statement.

Software Zen: delete this;

Nemanja Trifunovic16-May-11 2:21

16-May-11 2:21

Yes, I know what you mean. What I am saying is that the error is so obvious that I can't imagine it ever being a problem.

utf8-cpp

Gary Wheeler16-May-11 2:28

16-May-11 2:28

Unfortunately, the original DoSomething(); was indeed a method call, and the inserted junk was a couple dozen lines of code.

Software Zen: delete this;

Nemanja Trifunovic16-May-11 3:56

16-May-11 3:56

I believe you, but in 15+ years of professional software development (+ more as a hobby) with C-like languages I have never run into issue with that kind of bugs. I've seen ones with a semicolon after while, and even today I often miscount parens or even forget a semicolon here and there, but in your example the indentation just shouts in your face that something is wrong.

utf8-cpp

Gary Wheeler16-May-11 4:02

16-May-11 4:02

A contributing factor to the problem was that several hands had been working on this particular project. Brace style and indentation were not consistent, which meant that the two missing brace characters were less visually obvious than you might expect.

I was involved in finding the problem, because my application communicated with the service in question. The code itself was not mine, fortunately.

Software Zen: delete this;

QuiJohn16-May-11 2:26

QuiJohn

16-May-11 2:26

I believe everything you outlined should be pounded into every new C/C++/C# student until it's second nature.

if (condition) DoSomething();

I used to shun this but now use it for strings of similar, ultra simplistic ifs. It looks clean, and if used in the right place is staggeringly obvious what it's doing. Not, as I have seen:

if (condition) x ? y : z;

And x, y and z are greatly abbreviated here. *shudder*

For the other cases, I type both braces as part of typing the if (or for, or whatever), before I type any of the contents, regardless of if it's only 1 line.

He said, "Boy I'm just old and lonely,
But thank you for your concern,
Here's wishing you a Happy New Year."
I wished him one back in return.

Gary Wheeler16-May-11 2:30

16-May-11 2:30

David Kentley wrote:
if (condition) x ? y : z;

That is so incredibly puke-worthy. It probably even compiles.

Software Zen: delete this;