Survey Results

The first thing I saw in survey section

Amar Chaudhary26-Jun-10 10:41

Amar Chaudhary

26-Jun-10 10:41

Hard, always Roll eyes | :rolleyes:

and then I read the question ~~curiously~~ Wink | ;)

My Startup!!!!

Profile@Elance - feedback available too

Re: The first thing I saw in survey section

hfrmobile28-Jun-10 23:27

hfrmobile

28-Jun-10 23:27

Long time ago I saw a book at a customer: "Hard core ..... Visual Basic" ^^ Big Grin | :-D

C++/C# 4 ever!

MCP, MCTS, MCPD
http://www.hfrmobile.com

Elastic TabStops by Nick Gravgaard [modified]

TonyHenrique26-Jun-10 10:15

TonyHenrique

26-Jun-10 10:15

Nick Gravgaard improved the idea of TabStop in the code; He developed the Elastic TabStops.
I really liked this. Visual Studio 2010 should have this option.
See an example on this site:
http://nickgravgaard.com/elastictabstops/[^]

modified on Saturday, June 26, 2010 4:27 PM

Re: Elastic TabStops by Nick Gravgaard

Mladen Janković26-Jun-10 16:15

Mladen Janković

26-Jun-10 16:15

At least you could give a warning that site tries to silently install malware... actually java plug-in but it isn't a big difference.

[Genetic Algorithm Library] [Wowd]

Re: Elastic TabStops by Nick Gravgaard

hfrmobile28-Jun-10 23:25

hfrmobile

28-Jun-10 23:25

Used "View source" and there is nothing strange ...
MSE and McAfee didn't report a problem.

Maybe the malware was removed meanwhile?

MCP, MCTS, MCPD
http://www.hfrmobile.com

Re: Elastic TabStops by Nick Gravgaard

hfrmobile28-Jun-10 23:24

hfrmobile

28-Jun-10 23:24

Nice idea

But the drawback is that if you have to read code in another editor which does not support these elastic tabstops the code may look awful? Or are there spaces everywhere for other editors not supporting elastic tabstops?

For .NET code (C#) I prefer using StyleCop (using tabs!!) in order to produce consistent and "beautiful" code Suspicious | :suss:

MCP, MCTS, MCPD
http://www.hfrmobile.com

It's a source revision control problem

TheGreatAndPowerfulOz25-Jun-10 10:13

TheGreatAndPowerfulOz

25-Jun-10 10:13

This would be a non-issue if

1. source revision control stored the parse tree, instead of the raw text file, and
2. there were rules in your source revision control that would give you a raw text file on get of source that formatted it according to your desire.

This also would make merging much easier as the parse trees would be compared, rather than the raw text.

Fight Big Government:

http://obamacareclassaction.com/

http://obamacaretruth.org/

Re: It's a source revision control problem

PIEBALDconsult25-Jun-10 19:07

PIEBALDconsult

25-Jun-10 19:07

Well, get right on that.

Re: It's a source revision control problem

TheGreatAndPowerfulOz28-Jun-10 9:50

TheGreatAndPowerfulOz

28-Jun-10 9:50

I WILL! I WILL! Got a million bucks?

No? Ooooh, what's that shiny thingie over there...

Fight Big Government:

http://obamacareclassaction.com/

http://obamacaretruth.org/

Soft only, please!!!

big_sticks25-Jun-10 2:44

big_sticks

25-Jun-10 2:44

Most developers become used to using the editor of their choice. Forcing a single editor for all to use seems harsh since most developers need to adapt to the coding style where they work. As different editors expand tabs differently, legacy code takes on a bizarre appearance if tab characters are inconsistently used if a given file.
For example, the inconsistent use of tab characters has encouraged several types of software defects.

Consider the following;
(previous_code);

if (some_condition)
(do_this);
(do_this_too);

(subsequent_code);

Was the author's intent that do_this_too only be executed if some_condition was true? No way to tell from here. Obviously, that is not how the code gets executed and this could caused by a single tab setting (spaces per tab) being set differently than the original author's setting.

Obviously braces should be required to avoid this confusion.

This is only one of several cases caused by allowing tabs in source code.

Re: Soft only, please!!!

big_sticks25-Jun-10 2:49

big_sticks

25-Jun-10 2:49

Here is the correct code snippet. (ignore spaces (.) and tabs (t))

(....)(previous_code);

(....)if (some_condition)
(........)(do_this);
(tttttttt)(do_this_too);

(....)(subsequent_code);

(....) is 4 spaces.
(tttttttt) is a single tab expanded to 8 spaces.

Re: Soft only, please!!!

hfrmobile28-Jun-10 23:17

hfrmobile

28-Jun-10 23:17

You should consider to be more consistent? Wink | ;)

Use spaces or tabs but not both!

For legacy code: <Ctrl+K, Ctrl+D> which reformats the code using the current VS settings.

MCP, MCTS, MCPD
http://www.hfrmobile.com

Re: Soft only, please!!!

big_sticks29-Jun-10 7:03

big_sticks

29-Jun-10 7:03

Good tip!

Obviously

peterchen22-Jun-10 2:38

peterchen

22-Jun-10 2:38

see here[^]

Agh! Reality! My Archnemesis![^]

| FoldWithUs! | sighist | µLaunch - program launcher for server core and hyper-v server.

Re: Obviously

hfrmobile28-Jun-10 23:11

hfrmobile

28-Jun-10 23:11

Yes and no.

I prefer tabs (tabsize = 2) which makes collective code ownership easier because there are codes prefering tabsize = 4;

The given sample at StackOverflow using multiple spaces within the code (not for indention). You shouldn't to it that way. It was good for C++ but for C# you should avoid it:

StyleCop + NerdBank custom rules will be your friends Wink | ;)

MCP, MCTS, MCPD
http://www.hfrmobile.com

Re: Obviously

peterchen29-Jun-10 1:37

peterchen

29-Jun-10 1:37

hfrmobile wrote:
You shouldn't to it that way.

Why?

hfrmobile wrote:
It was good for C++ but for C# you should avoid it:

Where's the difference?

No, really, these are honest questions.

(I generally would prefer elastic tabstops anyway)

Agh! Reality! My Archnemesis![^]

| FoldWithUs! | sighist | µLaunch - program launcher for server core and hyper-v server.

Re: Obviously

hfrmobile1-Jul-10 1:24

hfrmobile

1-Jul-10 1:24

Sorry for the confusion!

peterchen wrote:
Why?

StyleCop: SA1025: The code contains multiple spaces in a row. Only one space is needed.

There is no need for it in C# (for C/C++ it is OK):

public enum PublicEnumeration
{
	TestValueNull = 0,    // meaningful description; mabe multiple lines(!) ;-)
	TestValueOne = 1,     // meaningful description; mabe multiple lines(!) ;-)
	TestValueTwo = 2      // meaningful description; mabe multiple lines(!) ;-)
}

prefer:

public enum PublicEnumeration
{
	/// <summary>meaningful description; mabe multiple lines ;-)</summary>
	TestValueNull = 0,

	/// <summary>meaningful description; mabe multiple lines ;-)</summary>
	TestValueOne = 1,

	/// <summary>meaningful description; mabe multiple lines ;-)</summary>
	TestValueTwo = 2
}

peterchen wrote:
Where's the difference?

C# and C/C++ are complete different languages .... OK, they have similar Syntax and keywords, but they're complete different! Big Grin | :-D

MCP, MCTS, MCPD
http://www.hfrmobile.com

Re: Obviously

peterchen1-Jul-10 1:48

peterchen

1-Jul-10 1:48

For the second thing, It's more the comment style that makes a difference - though that's not a bad reason.
If you use another documenting utility, it might be an issue again. "Completely Different languages" doesn't cut it (for the questions I posed)

(I'd say XML comments are the default if you wouldn't have to balance source code readability against documentation quality so much, and if Sandcastle wouldn't be such a sluggish heavyweight.)

hfrmobile wrote:
StyleCop: SA1025:

Well... what would you say about

StyleCopEX: SAX1026: newlines detected in method. Entire method can be implemented without newlines.

(i.a.W. a StyleCop warning is not a reason)

Agh! Reality! My Archnemesis![^]

| FoldWithUs! | sighist | µLaunch - program launcher for server core and hyper-v server.

Soft tabs may be better

Blubbo22-Jun-10 2:12

Blubbo

22-Jun-10 2:12

This soft tab may be better. Hard tab sometimes cause inconsistent tabbing as the user do not see extra tabs in the source code in Visual Studio.

Copying the entire code and paste in Microsoft Word and sometimes the extra tab can be seen.

So.... soft tab is better... as it can lesson the formatting as seen on Microsoft Word.

Re: Soft tabs may be better

HallK24-Jun-10 20:42

HallK

24-Jun-10 20:42

The ability to copy into MS Word is a poor excuse for a coding guideline. If you really must copy into MS Word, then untabify your code (there's a menu item for it, which you can even map to a key if you use it often) and then copy it.

By the way, I'm not saying that tabs is better. There are other better reasons for using spaces -- copying into MS Word is just a poor one. There are also very good reasons for using tabs, which is why I believe the programming world is so split on the issue.

Re: Soft tabs may be better

Blubbo25-Jun-10 5:08

Blubbo

25-Jun-10 5:08

Now that I've got a second thought... hard tab seems better now.

I had soft tabs on my code. I then just learned something... I switched to hard tab, then go to the very bottom of the code, then removed the very last closing bracket. I reinserted the closing bracket and all of the spaces were replaced with hard tabs, removing any inconsistent tabbing automatically. Ahh there we go!

Re: Soft tabs may be better

hfrmobile28-Jun-10 22:53

hfrmobile

28-Jun-10 22:53

I prefer hard-tabs and not soft-tabs (spaces) because to support coders preferences: Some prefer 4 chars for indention, others prefer just 2 ...

Collective code ownership is easier to mange indenting using tabs and so each coder can use the tab size she/he prefers Smile | :)

Tabs also enables us easier and faster navigation through the code using cursor keys Suspicious | :suss:

MCP, MCTS, MCPD
http://www.hfrmobile.com

Common format Tabs / Space

leiricho21-Jun-10 22:47

leiricho

21-Jun-10 22:47

To have it consistent we are using in our group AStyle (artistic style) with an common agreed setting, also as a tool within VS.
This allows also the control of spaces between operators and much more.

Re: Common format Tabs / Space

PIEBALDconsult23-Jun-10 18:09

PIEBALDconsult

23-Jun-10 18:09

This A-Style[^]?

Re: Common format Tabs / Space

leiricho23-Jun-10 20:55

leiricho

23-Jun-10 20:55

no, I am mean the artistic style program, you can find it at http://astyle.sourceforge.net

Use Ctrl+Left/Right to switch messages, Ctrl+Up/Down to switch threads, Ctrl+Shift+Left/Right to switch pages.

Option	Votes	%
Hard, always	384	42.76
Soft, always	319	35.52
Hard in some files, soft in others, using a consistent rule	71	7.91
No preference	124	13.81
Total	898	100%

Soft tabs (spaces) or Hard tabs (CHAR(9)) in your source code? [Edit]