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Hi Guys,
I just want to get an opinion, I only started web programming last year and am 28 years old. So far I enjoy it , although would my age make it difficult for me to get a job in the industry and is it somewhat too late to make that change?
Cheers
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No, I think 28 is fine. The crux is that you enjoy it and enjoy learning more. The latest languages and tools and platforms changes every few years, so it really requires a continual learning process to keep relevant.
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CrimeanTurtle2008 wrote: I only started web programming last year and am 28 years old. So far I enjoy it , although would my age make it difficult for me to get a job in the industry and is it somewhat too late to make that change?
No, a couple of years ago I hired a guy who had only been professionally developing since his late twenties. (He had a law degree originally and decided he wasn't enough of a bastard to be a lawyer).
The only thing you have to remember is that technology moves on increadibly quickly (and it seems to be getting faster, although that could be just because I'm getting older) so you have to keep learning. If you are interested in live long learning (and I really mean that, if you want to be a good to great developer you will have to keep your skills up constantly) then welcome to the club.
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Thats encouraging I guess, but since im a late starter what would I have to do to be more appealing than say the fresh 18 year old out of high school ready to go. Other than for reasons of having better coding skills, for what reasons would a company hire an older guy that is not as fast-paced learner as a young guy with enormous potential.
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For one thing, you would (or should) have a proven track record of work experience, though not necessarily in the industry, it still beats part-time work as the McDonalds fry guy.
only two letters away from being an asset
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CrimeanTurtle2008 wrote: since im a late starter what would I have to do to be more appealing than say the fresh 18 year old out of high school ready to go
I wouldn't hire a fresh 18 year old unless they could prove they had the skills (and I don't mean "1337 Skillz"). Most don't, although a few do. That's what university is for, so they can get the skills. When they get out at 22 I would then look seriously at them.
CrimeanTurtle2008 wrote: for what reasons would a company hire an older guy that is not as fast-paced learner as a young guy with enormous potential
I wouldn't be too down on yourself. Of all the people that I've interviewed the worst are those that think they don't have anything more they need to learn. You realise you have a lot to learn. Hell, I have a lot to learn and I consider myself to by fairly well above average - and it is the only way I'll stay at that level.
A lot of young guys come out of university and they don't know as much as they should. They come out with "passing" grades of 40-50% and they think that because they have a nice framed certificate that says Bachelor of Science (or Bachelor of Engineering) that they now know it all. Have a look around at the forums here. It is littered with posts from people asking increadibly basic questions because they can't be arsed to do their homework, or they've graduated and got a job in the real world and suddenly reaslise they can't actually do the basics what is expected of them.
As I already said, at least you recognise that you have a lot to learn. Those younger guys who could learn faster often just don't actually put in the effort.
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In my last year of study I got pretty good grades.
But I still am not satisfied and feel that I dont know enough and feel that I am always behind the eight ball because I havent been in a real work environment (in IT) and that the guys that have been doing it since they were young are just always streets ahead.
I guess I have posted a few times on here if Im stuck on something I dont understand or cant figure out, but Im always willing to give something a try before giving up and asking for someones help.
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CrimeanTurtle2008 wrote: But I still am not satisfied and feel that I dont know enough
If you ever lose that feeling then that's they day you should change career. Don't worry about it, but don't let it show to a potential employer.
CrimeanTurtle2008 wrote: Im always willing to give something a try before giving up and asking for someones help.
Another very positive trait. You learn much more by doing.
CrimeanTurtle2008 wrote: [I] feel that I am always behind the eight ball because I havent been in a real work environment and that the guys that have been doing it since they were young are just always streets ahead.
I can understand that, and you have to show a potential employer that you are worth hiring.
There are a number of things you can do to show you are capable. Writing about software development is one. Start a blog, write articles. If there is an open source project you like and feel you could contribute to then get involved.
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CrimeanTurtle2008 wrote: but since im a late starter what would I have to do to be more appealing than say the fresh 18 year old out of high school ready to go.
Both are appealing, given the right circumstances. The early starter and the late starter both lack in experience, that's true. The late starter has made an active move to this territory, the early starter might have 'just rolled in'. The late starter might be more ambitious, since he is there to prove himself.
Software-Development isn't comparable to working at a cash-register. At a cash-register, you'll want the cheapest (=youngest) labor possible. In Development, recruiters emphasize on quality, not on age. And there is no way that you can have +20 years of programming experience in C# 
CrimeanTurtle2008 wrote: Other than for reasons of having better coding skills, for what reasons would a company hire an older guy that is not as fast-paced learner as a young guy with enormous potential.
We are hired because of those coding-skills. "Enourmous potential" is something that needs to be proven at work - one who looks promising in a classroom will not always survive outside that classroom. Your local shoe-store isn't looking for the next Bill Gates, they want someone to repair their stock-system, before the store opens!
You are not an "older guy that is not a fast-paced learner" - you're an enthousiastic and balanced programmer, who doesn't run after every new technology just for kicks.
I are troll
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In this economy, I don't think age has much to due with getting employment. There will be quite a number of people changing careers I think. Proven skills and experience will be more a factor than age and maintaining those skills is a constant challenge that you must be prepared for.
only two letters away from being an asset
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Any advice on how to maintain those skills
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Why read the CP forums and articles of course 
Read, study, watch webcasts, practice; any thing it takes.
only two letters away from being an asset
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CrimeanTurtle2008 wrote: Any advice on how to maintain those skills
* Read books
* Get a subscription to a couple of magazines (I subscribe to MSDN Magazine, VSJ, SQL Server Magazine and CoDe)
* Listen to podcasts
* Find a local user group and attend their meetings
* When you feel you know a subject reasonably enough then write an article about it - If nothing else, it is something to put on your CV/résumé
* If you feel able, ask your user group leader if you can do a presentation to the group. (Some groups offer the opportunity to do nuggets to first timers - a short 5 to 15 minute presentation)
If you have a commute on a train you can read on your way to and from work, filling otherwise dead time. If you drive you can listen to pod casts to and from work.
Your local user group will also provide excellent networking opportunities. You will find out what people are doing and what they are looking for. You might get leads on jobs going that way (although it is still primarily thought recruitment agents).
By putting yourself out there and "sharing the love" some interesting things happen. The very act of having to explain what you know to someone else solidifies the information you already know.
Good luck
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Thank you very much for the advice, Colin, I appreciate the effort you and others on this forum have gone to helping someone with lesser skills and is a beginner.
God bless.
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I trust it is C# you are contemplating? otherwise I definitely must point you towards the lounge. 
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so young and already experimenting with multithreading...
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Sure, I remember a previous thread[^].
Multithreading and other techniques require abstract thinking, looking ahead, taking care of what
might happen, etc. And that's a big part of programming.
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I was quite interested as to how it would work, hence I thought it might be handy to know even though Im not applying it to anything. I think it was more to do with my curiousity than anything else.
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No problem. Curiosity is OK. There are lots of mechanisms and techniques to learn, besides an infinite number of little facts. The facts change all the time, but are well documented (well, most of the time) and can be searched for, the mechanisms and techniques may prove harder to grasp.
Since our chat on multithreading some 2 weeks ago, I've got a very interesting link on threading techniques[^] which might interest you.
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Looks like a great link. Thanks for that!. Albeit it seems complex but am willing to trojan through it even if it might prove too difficult.
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Part of the learning curve will be accepting you don't understand everything on the first iteration.
When I want to study something new, I typically buy a book (or two) on the subject, study it;
and one year later, I study it again, just to get more insight, you can't grasp it all in one go.
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Luc Pattyn wrote: When I want to study something new, I typically buy a book (or two) on the subject, study it;
and one year later, I study it again, just to get more insight, you can't grasp it all in one go.
Absolutely, there are books I constantly go back to. I have a very dog-eared copy of Rapid Development by Steve McConnell. I bought it over 10 years ago and I still refer to it from time-to-time.
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CrimeanTurtle2008 wrote: would my age make it difficult for me to get a job in the industry
As many others have already opined, you might not be a spring chicken but neither are you an old codger.
IMHO the bigger problem is the track record aspect. It is always easier to get a job/girlfriend when you've got a job/girlfriend (delete as applicable) and this is especially so in IT.
Someone has suggested writing an article or two and that is good advice. It gives you something to show prospective employers.
I am not sure how this would work in the US, but in UK another possible method to get experience in an environment that is more like *real* IT industry is to see if there are any small fairly local charities that might want some work doing, the pay is rubbish i.e. zilch, but the experience is invaluable as you get to go through all aspects of the job, from speccing through coding, testing and troubleshooting. Don't bother with Nationwide/International bodies (unless for a real job), they usually have their own IT bods.
Good Luck!
Henry Minute
If you open a can of worms, any viable solution *MUST* involve a larger can.
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