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Nothing is static forever in this world, so is programming. Programming move from assembly -> procedure -> object-oriented -> RAD, guess what's next? My guess is scripting.
It is hard to justify JAVA to C++, even VB. Because I think that we must take hardware into consideration, too. Code that once run very slow will now run very much faster, and the improvement of hardware is much faster than programming tools, best of all, the price of hardware is going down, too.
It seems like lesser and lesser company wants to use C++ (whatever C++ it is...), newly startup company would choose either JAVA or VB mostly (not all of course). I think it is very important that we open up our mind, and implement the among different languages.
Try not to fall into the war between those 'big name'.
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Java still seems to be popular in my area (especially with recruitment agencies), and VB certainly has a strong following, but with the move to distributed programming is C++/ATL coming back to the fore?
What about the new technologies on the horizon - ASP+, COM+ 2.0, "Cool" - will these usurp the position of some of the more traditional languages
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The word around the traps where I water say's
OO langages are near dead and the future rests with composition languages and structures like Piccola,
Except none of them are really ready to use yet !
Then again what would the folks I booze with know
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I have no idea what the flavor is... Java is popular, as is C++, but it really depends on what you're doing.
Btw, OO is not dead, it has barely even begun to see its potential, and it will always be a handy item in a programmer's toolbox.
Pronouncing something 'dead' like that is generally either snobbishness or wishful thinking. For instance, where I work, the primary language in the building is still COBOL, despite protestations every decade for the last 30 years that it was dead or dying. Now, I've never used it nor would I want to, but there it is.
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Unfortunately for you, OO languages are not dead and are more popular than ever.
Unfortunately very few people know how to design in OO and set up a full class association diagram. This usually means that although OO languages are used, they are often not used in an OO way.
The battle over whether C++ is an OO language still rages, although most of the people proclaiming that C++ is NOT OO, fall into the category I mentioned above.
Personally, I use VB when performance is not an issue, C++ when it is, Delphi when the client wants me to and ditto for JAVA.
Personally, I think I could get by with just using VB, C++ (MFC & ATL) and a bunch of scripting languages for web development. I still haven't understood the benefits (commercially, that is) for a cross-platform language like JAVA as it is still slow and functionally inferior to C++ (IMHO). But I use it.
I have no religious convictions about any language, but I do have my favorites
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>>I still haven't understood the benefits (commercially, that is) for a cross-platform language like JAVA as it is still slow and functionally inferior to C++ (IMHO). But I use it.
If you are having troubles working out the commercial benefits of Java vs C++ then think about it from Sun and MS's point of view  .
Still - I really do love the idea of writing a single piece of code and being able to run it on any platform. Almost every platform has a C/C++ compiler, but they don't have the same GUI API. Even so, Java GUI apps are horrendously slow on my system, and I know many developers who only use Java for logic and not presentation.
I guess if you can take the performance hit and you wish to deploy a compiled solution that will work on any platform, and you like the idea of garbage collection and such, then Java is the way to go.
I wonder what Microsoft will come up with to counter the threat of Java..
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Java on the client is not slow anymore. Check out the fully Java-based MS Office clone at www.ThinkFree.co
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Hello,
Hmm, thinkfree it's not only slow, it's moves like a dead cat and locks up my machine at times for minutes. A dual PII350 with a quarter a gig of RAM may not be a top flyer, but hey! don't call that acceptable.
And I said nothing about the bugs yet.
IMHO it's going to take some time until someone really comes out with any reasonable replacement for (my) native-code text processor.
Regards,
Levy
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>I wonder what Microsoft will come up with to counter the threat of Java...
Oh, that one is simple (and scary) : VB
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>> If you are having troubles working out the commercial benefits of Java vs C++ then think about it from Sun and MS's point of view .
Ahh, but my point of view is slightly different to theirs. I provide software for my clients.
>> Still - I really do love the idea of writing a single piece of code and being able to run it on any platform. Almost every platform has a C/C++ compiler, but they don't have the same GUI API. Even so, Java GUI apps are horrendously slow on my system, and I know many developers who only use Java for logic and not presentation.
True, but I don't know many people who use a platform that would require JAVA. For instance, ASP is browser independent (even if the back-end isn't). But that means that I can write an IIS specific app and deploy over multiple platforms. Not only am I leveraging decades of experience by other C++ developers, but it's faster and more robust. Of course, robustness depends on the quality of the developer, doesn't it.
>> I guess if you can take the performance hit and you wish to deploy a compiled solution that will work on any platform, and you like the idea of garbage collection and such, then Java is the way to go.
Well, I can't deal with the performance hit (I've had clients abandon Java projects due to this), and garbage collection brings it's own set of problems (such as WHEN will it strike) Different VMs (on different platforms) garbage collect in different ways so that the SAME code works differently on different platforms even though the VMs have all been written by Sun.
So I guess, for me at least, Java is not the way to go. It can be useful at times, but as a language to replace C++ or VB, I think not. Eventually C++ will be replaced by an evolution, not a revolution... as always.
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> I wonder what Microsoft will come up with to counter the threat of Java...
It's already here as C# (aka Cool). This is a Java-like language with an underlying COM focus, and has been carefully designed to address the concerns of Microsoft developers using C++ and/or Java. It has tried to address
some of Java's shortcomings, and provides a special C/C++ compatibility 'mode'.
While I personally feel some doubt about the need for yet another Java-like language, there's no doubt that for C++/Java developers working with COM in Microsoft environments, who find VB too awful to contemplate, C# will be an attractive alternative.
Dav
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> I wonder what Microsoft will come up with to counter the threat of Java...
It's already here as C# (aka Cool). This is a Java-like language with an underlying COM focus, and has been carefully designed to address the concerns of Microsoft developers using C++ and/or Java. It has tried to address
some of Java's shortcomings, and provides a special C/C++ compatibility 'mode'.
While I personally feel some doubt about the need for yet another Java-like language, there's no doubt that for C++/Java developers working with COM in Microsoft environments, who find VB too awful to contemplate, C# will be an attractive alternative.
Dav
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