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Someting I somehow can't get used to - since I am used to REAL fonts 
Turning on Warning level 4 would probably kill that project, anyway.
We are a big screwed up dysfunctional psychotic happy family - some more screwed up, others more happy, but everybody's psychotic joint venture definition of CP
blog: TDD - the Aha! | Linkify!| FoldWithUs! | sighist
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Hi,
I'm wondering, whats wrong with Courier New? I'm using that one.
Thanks! 
It is said that the most complex structures built by mankind are software systems. This is not generally appreciated because most people cannot see them. Maybe that's a good thing because if we saw them as buildings, we'd deem many of them unsafe.
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Programmers fonts that are designed specifically for programming are very careful to provide easily distinguishable characteristics between easily confused numbers and letters.
If you compare a font like Consolas against Courier New and try typing in 0Oo or 1l you will see the difference clearly.
Consolas is designed to be clearly readable when viewing source code, to see a comparison of Consolas and Courier check this out:
http://spellcoder.com/blogs/bashmohandes/archive/2006/06/03/133.aspx[^]
"It's so simple to be wise. Just think of something stupid to say and then don't say it."
-Sam Levenson
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The comment at the bottom of that link is hillarious!
Just gave Consolas a shot, and thought it was a little harder on my eyes than Courier New.
Oh, well, to each his own...
- S
50 cups of coffee and you know it's on!
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Steve Echols wrote: Oh, well, to each his own...
Certainly but when you code over a thousand lines a day or have to look at several thousand a day when doing updates etc I think it's critical to choose something that you are absolutely certain is the easiest to read and the quickest to comprehend, not just what you're used to.
People quickly get used to anything if some time is taken; best to get used to what is best. Courier New to me, at least for programming, is not designed at all with either of those goals in mind and the faded washed out look of the text is dangerous at best to my eyesight.
"It's so simple to be wise. Just think of something stupid to say and then don't say it."
-Sam Levenson
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I think I mostly found the line spacing a little tight. For me white space is the most critical thing, so my eye's aren't distracted (if that makes any sense). If things are too close together, my eyes jump around to much, and that's even more draining.
John C wrote: best to get used to what is best
But "best" is purely subjective, so my best is better than your best! 
- S
50 cups of coffee and you know it's on!
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Steve Echols wrote: I think I mostly found the line spacing a little tight. For me white space is the most critical thing, so my eye's aren't distracted (if that makes any sense). If things are too close together, my eyes jump around to much, and that's even more draining.
That makes sense but there are many other programming specific fonts out there, wouldn't hurt to have a look at them, I'd be climbing the walls if I had to suffer through Courier New for more than 5 minutes programming, it's just not at all easy on the eyes, all faded and spidery and ambiguous when it comes to many letters and numbers.
Steve Echols wrote: But "best" is purely subjective
In this matter I couldn't disagree more but I also couldn't care less what font you use so whatever floats your boat!
"It's so simple to be wise. Just think of something stupid to say and then don't say it."
-Sam Levenson
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I agree completely. I tried Consolas, and my first thought was "Oh dear God!" It sucked completely with the "standard" smoothing I have setup. I tried clear type, and it did look better for this font and I probably could have gotten used to it, though I didn't see it as any better than Courier New that I'm used to - except that I think clear type looks like crap everywhere else it is used. I also tried it without any smoothing at all - wow is it bad there.
I do think that Courier New on a white background is very hard to read - but I switched to a silver background ages ago and haven't looked back. With that background, Courier New looks good (IMHO). I've never come across a problem with the whole 0Oo or 1l thing before (in my 9+ yrs of programming), so I don't see a huge push for a different font just for that reason. I will try some others though, just to see what else is out there (the "Envy Code R" font looked pretty nice).
-----
In the land of the blind, the one eyed man is king.
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Vineas wrote: I agree completely.
Ditto! I tried Consolas and it looked terrible! Personally I like my eyes and that font hurt them.
Vineas wrote: I switched to a silver background ages ago
And here I thought I was the only one.  I switched my background years ago, because staring at a white screen for hours at a time is hard on the eyes. Every now and then I find a program, editor/whatever, that has the white background set in concrete, which is very irritating  .
INTP
"Program testing can be used to show the presence of bugs, but never to show their absence."Edsger Dijkstra
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John C wrote: when you code over a thousand lines a day
Really??  Its a lot of code I think to write each day.
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Even with a loose definition of "line of code" I've never had to write that much.
Probably too much writing and not enough thinking. 
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Probably too much writing and not enough thinking. [Big Grin]
Totally agree 
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Consolas misses the mark. It sucks.
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Really? What do you suggest then because I'm certainly not going to willfully go blind programming in Courier but I'm open to any other suggestions.
"It's so simple to be wise. Just think of something stupid to say and then don't say it."
-Sam Levenson
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Are you an optician/medical doctor with factual knowledge about the subject, or are you just pulling assertions out of your ass as if there was this endless supply of them, and you just have to get them out?
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First off, I was not being facetious, I really wanted to know what you recommend, I'd try it out and if it was a better match for programming than Consolas I'd adopt it immediately, if you have nothing to offer to the conversation other than incivility (which I certainly wouldn't expect you to exhibit face to face in person so why do it here?) then may I suggest a two word phrase that starts with four letters and involves sex and travel which kid sister rules deny me from typing as I so want to right now. 
Secondly it doesn't take an optician to look at just these characters "1l0oO" in Courier New versus a programming specific font and not see the immediate problem a programmer faces using it, likely a child would see it as a problem immediately. It also doesn't take an optician to look at courier new versus consolas in the image I linked to and immediately see that Consolas is easier to read, faster to comprehend and more legible than the other. I bet you if you showed a printout of that page with just the text of the two fonts and asked a random group of as many people as you care to which is easier to read they would overwhelmingly choose Consolas.
I've spent years with poor eyesight and decades programming for far more hours in a row than is good for me, I've gotten pretty good at recognizing anything that is standing between me and getting a mountain of work done in as little time as possible.
Personal preferences are sometimes illogical and hard to shake, however there is certainly never any harm in taking a look at the alternatives out there and I think I've provided solid reasons why people should, we're programmers supposedly we employ logic and thought and reflection to what we do not zealots that must stick to some dogma handed down on high and inviolate or hide bound traditionalists that must at all costs stick to some set of imaginary rules.
"It's so simple to be wise. Just think of something stupid to say and then don't say it."
-Sam Levenson
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the fruits of your success will be in direct ratio to the honesty and sincerity of your own efforts in keeping your own records, doing your own thinking and, reaching your own conclusions.
..surviving in autumn..in love with spring..
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John C wrote: What do you suggest then
The Proggy-Type fonts are great. As long as you use them in precisely the size they are meant to. These are fixed-size fonts, and windows will do horrible things to them if it tries to stretch them.
Let's think the unthinkable, let's do the undoable, let's prepare to grapple with the ineffable itself, and see if we may not eff it after all.
Douglas Adams, "Dirk Gently's Holistic Detective Agency"
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Every time I come across mention of monospaced fonts especially for programming, I give them a try. I keep coming back to Courier New. I really like the way Proggy Clean looks, but I don't use it because it doesn't scale well (if I need to enlarge for easier discussion about code with someone else.)
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No, not the poster, the font.
I've tried Hyperfont and Crystal, but Anonymous is the best.
Google it.
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It looks like it can't decide if it wants to be serif or sans-serif...
Despite everything, the person most likely to be fooling you next is yourself.
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Yeah, I was just looking at it (in 7 point) and I noticed that too. But that seems common; even Consolas and the Proggies have serifs on the i and j. The lowercase l as well, but that's a good thing -- distinct from vertical bar |
However, the l is still too similar to the 1.
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Proggy is too small and it comes only in a handful of sizes, so Consolas it is. Plus, it looks great with cleartype on LCD (my main machine), on CRT Courier New is the better choice.
The only flaw of Consolas is a lack of slashed zero (you gotta tell your O from 0).
Unfortunately, people who make fonts (typographists and graphic designers) don't do programming, they are in completely different domains of creativity, otherwise somebody would have made the right stuff by now.
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Variable width? "Don't care"??? You people call yourself programmers?
If it can't be easily chiseled into a block of granite, it's not worth coding in.
Faith is a fine invention
For gentlemen who see;
But microscopes are prudent
In an emergency!
-Emily Dickinson
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