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Re: VS 7 IDE speed Anonymous31-Jul-02 1:25 Anonymous 31-Jul-02 1:25  You do not buy new compiler, cause it is faster, but cause it is better (more new functionality, new classes, easier work - I don't say that it is all there, in vc7). If You want fast compiler, get Borland C++ 3.1 for DOS - heh - it is really fast for today. Re: VS 7 IDE speed Pavel Sokolov31-Jul-02 6:42 Pavel Sokolov 31-Jul-02 6:42  where new classes? do you know vc7 ? if I want to add new class in vc7 I should wait 5 -7 seconds before html dialog is loaded. I have pIII-450 with 768 mb of RAM, I think this is not an old computer. Pavel Sokolov, CEZEO software, LanTalk Network, http://www.cezeo.com http://www.lantalk.net Re: VS 7 IDE speed Anders Molin31-Jul-02 8:57 Anders Molin 31-Jul-02 8:57  Pavel Sokolov wrote: if I want to add new class in vc7 I should wait 5 -7 seconds before html dialog is loaded. I have pIII-450 with 768 mb of RAM, I think this is not an old computer. I have used VC7 a lot on my old computer, a PIII-600 with 512 MB Ram, and it worked great. Didn't have to wait much for those dialogs. A lot of it have to do with your disks though... - Anders Money talks, but all mine ever says is "Goodbye!" Re: VS 7 IDE speed Ellery Familia2-Aug-02 19:36 Ellery Familia 2-Aug-02 19:36  oh c'mon! you "programmers" can afford $1,000+ for VS.NET, but can't spend the same amount on a decent computer? sad sad thing. Re: VS 7 IDE speed Anders Molin3-Aug-02 0:38 Anders Molin 3-Aug-02 0:38  First of all, I've only spent aprox. $350 on a VS.NET upgrade. I also have a great almost new computer (Dual 1800+), but we were talking about the speed on low/middle range computers... - Anders Money talks, but all mine ever says is "Goodbye!" Re: VS 7 IDE speed Paul A. Howes3-Aug-02 2:50 Paul A. Howes 3-Aug-02 2:50  Ellery, Some of the people replying to this discussion thread are not professional programmers. Rather, they are students learning how to use the latest and greatest tools. Unfortunately, this means that they never paid for VS.NET. I'm sure you can draw your own conclusions from that statement... From this point of view, they are paying exactly the same amount for the hardware as the software. -- Paul "I drank... WHAT?" Re: VS 7 IDE speed Daniel Turini3-Aug-02 3:21 Daniel Turini 3-Aug-02 3:21  Ellery Familia wrote: oh c'mon! you "programmers" can afford $1,000+ for VS.NET, but can't spend the same amount on a decent computer? sad sad thing. I suspect some of them may have bought on a "promotion" and paid only $2 each CD. Concussus surgo. When struck I rise. Re: VS 7 IDE speed Anna-Jayne Metcalfe4-Aug-02 12:52 Anna-Jayne Metcalfe 4-Aug-02 12:52  I would think a laptop with a 1GHz Duron (256MB RAM) counts as a "decent computer"...and VS.NET runs like a fly in treacle on it. IMHO There's no denying that VS.NET requires a lot more power than VS6...though even VS6 is pretty slow on large projects. Andy Metcalfe - Sonardyne International Ltd Trouble with resource IDs? Try the Resource ID Organiser Add-In for Visual C++ "I would be careful in separating your wierdness, a good quirky weirdness, from the disturbed wierdness of people who take pleasure from PVC sheep with fruit repositories." - Paul Watson Re: VS 7 IDE speed Marc Clifton31-Jul-02 11:42 Marc Clifton 31-Jul-02 11:42  And if you change the DWORD to a WORD, do you diligently search and replace all references to the variable name with the corrected name? Maybe you do, but I bet a lot of other people don't. Plus, why code the storage method as part of the name? Isn't this why we have getter/setter methods, so we don't need to concern ourselves with internal implementation, and therefore don't care about the storage mechanism? Marc Re: VS 7 IDE speed Pavel Sokolov31-Jul-02 12:13 Pavel Sokolov 31-Jul-02 12:13  I'm happy with my notation Pavel Sokolov, CEZEO software, LanTalk Network, http://www.cezeo.com http://www.lantalk.net Re: VS 7 IDE speed Jim A. Johnson31-Jul-02 12:33 Jim A. Johnson 31-Jul-02 12:33  Marc Clifton wrote: And if you change the DWORD to a WORD, do you diligently search and replace all references to the variable name with the corrected name? Maybe you do, but I bet a lot of other people don't. Actually, I do that, and have no problem with it. If I'm changing the size of something, it's not a bad idea to go look at all usages of it as part of the change; it usually only takes a few minutes. Might as well change them whild looking. Marc Clifton wrote: Isn't this why we have getter/setter methods, so we don't need to concern ourselves with internal implementation, and therefore don't care about the storage mechanism? As nice as that sounds, frequently we do care about the storage mechanism. For example, in communicating with external devices - whether they be musical instruments as in my work, or files, whatever - the size of storage is frequently hard-coded and must be respected. Sometimes data must be passed through a pipe of fixed size.. in which case data may be truncated and precision or sign lost. Here's another example: I work in a typical mixed environment, with character strings represent in various APIs as either char*, CString, or STL string. Frequently I have to deal with two or even all three types in the same chunk of code, all referring to the same text. In this case specific prefixes are very helpful. Re: VS 7 IDE speed paulccc2-Aug-02 7:05 paulccc 2-Aug-02 7:05  In Pavel's defense, I too prepend variable names with their type. I find it generally helps the readability of the code. And yes - if I change a variable type, I do change the variable name accordingly - otherwise doing it in the first place is useless!! You talk about having get/set functions for data hiding, but what about within the class itself? I think after using it for a while you can really benefit. My colleague recently named some variables sBlah (CString) instead of saBlah (CStringArray) and it caused no end of confusion! -Paul Re: VS 7 IDE speed Pavel Sokolov2-Aug-02 8:52 Pavel Sokolov 2-Aug-02 8:52  PaulMdx wrote: You talk about having get/set functions for data hiding, but what about within the class itself? I use a strongly C++, object oriented notation with a data hiding and others cool stuff, inside the class too. Pavel Sokolov, CEZEO software, LanTalk Network, http://www.cezeo.com http://www.lantalk.net Re: VS 7 IDE speed Pavel Sokolov2-Aug-02 8:54 Pavel Sokolov 2-Aug-02 8:54  I use a Set/Get functions for all class members, and it save a lot of my time. ps. inside the class too. Pavel Sokolov, CEZEO software, LanTalk Network, http://www.cezeo.com http://www.lantalk.net Re: VS 7 IDE speed Jason.King.Work@gmail.com2-Aug-02 9:21 Jason.King.Work@gmail.com 2-Aug-02 9:21  Marc Clifton wrote: And if you change the DWORD to a WORD, do you diligently search and replace all references to the variable name with the corrected name? Maybe you do, but I bet a lot of other people don't. Yes you should. And it is easy to do. Simply change the declaration and the compiler will not compile until you have made all the neccessary changes. This is about as close to forced self documenting code as it gets. Comments in context are far less easier to find and change. Marc Clifton wrote: Plus, why code the storage method as part of the name? OK, so you see the following line of code, what does it mean? bone = currentBone; Is bone a string or a number or a class? So now you have to look at it's declaration. OK, so now you say, "Well, I wouldn't have named it bone or currentBone."(Hey, neither would I.)"I would have named it boneIndex or boneName." OK, so is boneIndex an iterator or a number or a key in map template? As for boneName, is it const char * or string? All this information is very important in debugging. Marc Clifton wrote: Isn't this why we have getter/setter methods, so we don't need to concern ourselves with internal implementation, and therefore don't care about the storage mechanism? This helps for setting/getting members of a class, but what if you are just dealing with variables within code. Also, remember cast conversion operators are inheirent in even basic types so... const char * currentBone = "leg"; int bone = 0; bone = currentBone; This compiles, but it would far less likely to be written if it was: const char * pszCurrentBone = "leg"; int nBone = 0; nBone = pszCurrentBone; Jason King Re: VS 7 IDE speed Chris Maunder31-Jul-02 14:04 Chris Maunder 31-Jul-02 14:04  Pavel Sokolov wrote: Bad example WNDENUMPROC Good example LPTHREAD_START_ROUTINE Yep - I'm with you Pavel. The more verbose a name the better. cheers, Chris Maunder Re: VS 7 IDE speed Ed Gadziemski3-Aug-02 4:05 Ed Gadziemski 3-Aug-02 4:05  I agree. Edward_Francis_Gadziemski Entropy Rules Stan Shannon29-Jul-02 9:22 Stan Shannon 29-Jul-02 9:22  I also make every effort to make my code as neat as possible. But at the end of the development cycle I always end up wondering who the heck wrote that pile of crap while I wasn't looking. I think that there is some kind of thermodynamic principle governing how this happens. It certainly isn't my fault! I'm not a real reverend, I just play one on CP. Re: Entropy Rules Daniel Lohmann31-Jul-02 9:12 Daniel Lohmann 31-Jul-02 9:12  You are quite right I have learned in my software engineering lectures, that there is some "rising entropy" in every software project. Big and long-living projects' code size increases about 10-20% per year - just because of maintaince entropy. Themoynamics can explain us the whole world -- Daniel Lohmann http://www.losoft.de (Hey, this page is worth looking! You can find some free and handy NT tools there ) Re: Entropy Rules Chris Maunder31-Jul-02 14:08 Chris Maunder 31-Jul-02 14:08  Reverend Stan wrote: I always end up wondering who the heck wrote that pile of crap while I wasn't looking. You too? Man - whoever it is sure gets around. cheers, Chris Maunder Re: Entropy Rules ColinDavies31-Jul-02 17:35 ColinDavies 31-Jul-02 17:35  Yeah, I feel physically sick when I look at my old code also. Regardz Colin J Davies Sonork ID 100.9197:Colin You are the intrepid one, always willing to leap into the fray! A serious character flaw, I might add, but entertaining. Said by Roger Wright about me. Re: Entropy Rules Paul Watson4-Aug-02 1:41 Paul Watson 4-Aug-02 1:41  Reverend Stan wrote: I also make every effort to make my code as neat as possible. But at the end of the development cycle I always end up wondering who the heck wrote that pile of crap while I wasn't looking You should have seen me agonising over every line before I submitted that CP+ thing. While I was writing it I was thinking "this rocks", but once it was ready to be submitted I checked over my code and though "god, they are going to have a good laugh at this." And I kept looking for the Format Code button for C++ in VS.NET. No such luck... lol. regards, Paul Watson Bluegrass Cape Town, South Africa Re: Entropy Rules George4-Aug-02 3:02 George 4-Aug-02 3:02  Paul Watson wrote: And I kept looking for the Format Code button for C++ in VS.NET. No such luck... lol. Are you sure? Boy, they really screwed the IDE then... Formatting is important because.... Roger Allen29-Jul-02 5:30 Roger Allen 29-Jul-02 5:30  I can't see how anybody would go for an option other than this. All code must go through a development/debug/maintenance cycle. So go for anything else would be professional suicide, but thats just my opinion. Sure, depending on peformance you *may* have to compromise*, but with the speed of todays and future computers, this should be less of an issue as time goes by. * I have never yet had to compromise, and I write real time apps for instrument control. Roger Allen Sonork 100.10016 If I had a quote, it would be a very good one. Re: Formatting is important because.... James R. Twine29-Jul-02 7:42 James R. Twine 29-Jul-02 7:42  Roger Allen wrote: Sure, depending on peformance you *may* have to compromise*, but with the speed of todays and future computers, this should be less of an issue as time goes by.    I have never seen a situation that has suffered reduced performance due to formatting concerns.  And, I honestly believe that anyone who greatly reduces the performance of code (note that certain temporaries are usually optimized out) by doing formatting changes likely is someone that is not qualified to make those changes!    Peace! -=- James. "There is nothing worse than being oblivious to the fact that you do not know what you are doing." [Get Check Favorites 1.4 Now!]

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