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John C wrote: we're talking about those initial first steps when someone thinks it might be interesting and wants to dabble in it
I agree. My first language was QBasic, and although its not my favorite language by any means I don't regret starting with it while playing around in the kiddie pool.
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I couldn't agree more.
Ask not whether it is useful. Ask what it is useful for.
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Agree with most of what you said, but..
John C wrote: That's like saying if you want to learn how to drive you should first start with learning how to assemble a car engine.
IMHO, not a valid comparison.
Also, Assembly may be a bit too harsh, yes. But I believe that C/C++ should be the languages new people start off with. Why? They then learn how to do certain things, why they are important, etc. And then they discover the world that is Other Languages, and these other languages help them by doing much of the hard/tedious stuff that you must do yourself in C/C++. Then, people have an idea of how they benefit by using, say, C# over C or C++.
And on a somewhat related note, I overheard this the other day in university:
Dude A: "...yeah, I'll be doing it in Java.."
Dude B: "So you prefer Java too?"
Dude A: "Yeah, its so much easier to work with than C++.."
Dude B: "Soo true! C++ is just ...weird...why do people like it so much when Java is so much better to work with??..."
Dude A: "yeah"
says a lot. -_-
"impossible" is just an opinion.
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A starting language for a new developer should be something simple and rewarding with little effort. It's a tease to get them hooked and comfortable with the idea of programming. Once they have then they can move on to more complex things, perhaps pursue a career at it but what some here seem to be advocating is that if they don't start with assembler or C they will somehow be ruined for life which is utter hogwash.
I think my analogy is perfect, learning *always* starts simple enough to be satisfiying to the student and rewarding and moves on to more complex stuff over time. That's the recipe for *really* teaching anything to anyone.
C and C++ are fast becoming niche languages in any case so starting a new student off on them is a slap in their face right from the start. If someone want's to learn how to become a carpenter you don't start them off with tree biology.
"The pursuit of excellence is less profitable than the pursuit of bigness, but it can be more satisfying."
- David Ogilvy
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i started with C64 BASIC and 6502 Assembler. both were fun.
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My first programming language at school was QBASIC. My first programming language in Windows was C++/MFC. I believe that the first language will depend on what area the developer will want to work, that's the option I've selected.
Best regards,
Lizandro Campbell
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C was my first language and I found it no more difficult than learning any other high level language. I'd even go on to say that it is much simpler that C# or Java as a beginners language since it has far less language features.
I can't disagree with you about dabblers. My only concern is that they pick up bad habits learning something like vb where they put the entire logic of the program into a click event handler.
A human being should be able to change a diaper, plan an invasion, butcher a hog, conn a ship, design a building, write a sonnet, balance accounts, build a wall, set a bone, comfort the dying, take orders, give orders, cooperate, act alone, solve equations, analyze a new problem, pitch manure, program a computer, cook a tasty meal, fight efficiently, die gallantly. Specialization is for insects.
- -Lazarus Long
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"It is practically impossible to teach good programming to students that have had a prior exposure to BASIC: as potential programmers they are mentally mutilated beyond hope of regeneration."
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Yep, he was a big fan of ALGOL 60 and reverse polish notation. Maybe nubies should start there?
Jon
Smith & Wesson: The original point and click interface
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Started with Java - NIIT - I still remember the program that got me addicted to programming it was a cat running across the screen a simple animation sequence and that got me thinking, mm aha! Created few cool apps, still have the code for those apps!
Moved on to VB. Wrote a school database for an NGO!
Moved on to HTML, DHTML, Javascript  Website stuff
Well then the real thing C!
Then it was VB.Net for my MCA project!
Then it was C++(VC). First time I saw CFont::CreateFont I was thinking do I really want to do this. 
The book that got me going with VC++ was Yeshwant kanetkar book, deeply indepted to him. Also indepted to Dundas India and Code Project for the job opportunity that they gave! Still remember going through Ultimate toolbox and grid source code! Phew!
Nibu thomas
Microsoft MVP for VC++
Code must be written to be read, not by the compiler, but by another human being.
Programming Blog: http://nibuthomas.wordpress.com
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Hi all
I have some problem for convert file from linux to "fle.txt".I have file from linux but I don't know file something.My teacher want to convert this file to .txt .Now I have code fortran programming to convert this file,but my teacher want to change to C programming.Now I can't coding C programming. Please help me!!!!!!!!!!
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Go to school and learn something more productive to your career.
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Do u know C Programming? If not you should learn it first.
B2C
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It seems that your teacher has choosen badly the pupil for the task.
If the Lord God Almighty had consulted me before embarking upon the Creation, I would have recommended something simpler.
-- Alfonso the Wise, 13th Century King of Castile.
This is going on my arrogant assumptions. You may have a superb reason why I'm completely wrong.
-- Iain Clarke
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hi all
i have table which conatins following values
col1 | col2 | col3
----- |--------|----------
11 | 1 | 66
77 | 2 | 22
22 | 3 | 22
33 | 4 | 19
now suppose i said sort col1 in asc order the reult should be like this
col1 | col2 | col3
----- |--------|----------
11 | 1 | 66
22 | 3 | 22
33 | 4 | 19
77 | 2 | 22
that is col1's eash row is key and on its position all others colom row should get shifted
plz tell me how can i do this in c#
Thank and Regards
Mukesh.
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You could probably do it with common sense. Oh wait...
Nobody can give you wiser advice than yourself. - Cicero
.·´¯`·->Rajesh<-·´¯`·.
Codeproject.com: Visual C++ MVP
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Rajesh R Subramanian wrote: common sense
Tell him more about it and he would be grateful to you if you could guide its availability, pricing and other relevant details.
Vasudevan Deepak Kumar
Personal Homepage
Tech Gossips
A pessimist sees only the dark side of the clouds, and mopes; a philosopher sees both sides, and shrugs; an optimist doesn't see the clouds at all - he's walking on them. --Leonard Louis Levinson
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First C next every thing...no doubt first we need to go with alphabets before going to words sentences paragraphs pages and even books in the same way we need to be familiar even with the middle level language C...every thing is next..
S. Naveen kumar
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I agree absolutely with you.
At first, when I didn't know programming, but wanting to learn, I began with Visual Basic (6.0) ... if I remember well. It was very difficult to me because, well, mainly because I was just 12 years old and I didn't know algorithms nor programming guides. So it was a failure. 
So I decided to began with C, because I saw it as the most elementary and powerful language, and a solid base to continue on learning other languages in future. Then, when I had already learned C, it would have been like Programming would have appeared clearly in front of me. When I was to starting to learn a new language, it was easy to me to learn, thing that wouldn't have been the same way easy having other language as starting point that wouldn't have been C.
And ... now I'm here, already programming good code, in C, C#, C++ and Java, and just four years after, being 16.
So, I think, a procedural language as C is the best starting point and the most solid base to learn programming (even without having learned algorithms, and learning in a self-teaching manner as I did) and more complex paradigms after (like OOP, Generic, etc.) 
-- Sorry for my bad english, it's not my native language and I'm learning. --
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Your progress is impressing, but "good code" is VERY relative claim. Most of 'really' good programmers
periodically change their opinions from
"i'm really cool programmer"
to
"ah! i do know nothing about programming ... my code isn't even close to ideal".
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I do agree. Well if its for newbies C is the language. Assembly could be good to learn all the basics but the complexity behind that basics may make the beginner loose his interests in programming. To learn programming you must have an aptitude for it. C is not that difficult to learn and playing around with it helps build that aptitude.
So go for C.
Sourya
    
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BASIC (ZX-Spectrum)
QBasic
VB5
VB6
C++
C++\CLI
C#, VB .NET, VBScript
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mine
C
C++
JAVA 
VB5 
VB .Net
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Before moving to object oriented programming, you should be well aware of the structural programming.
C will provide the core concepts without it is difficult to get concept behind the scene in OOPs.
You may easily go very fast in high level languages but very soon you will feel helpless if you don't have core concepts.
So, according to me, you should start with middle level language like C.
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I actually agree with you, but when I was a C Instructor at a private college I found that a lot of students failed to comprehend the differences between procedural and object oriented programming.
Having said that I should also mention that a lot of these students moved away from IT after finishing their respective courses.
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