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Nah, whenever you come across a misposted item it is the bound duty of all CPians to dump on it, try doing that in the lounge if you want to see some real vitriol 
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"some real vitriol" say? I think you make a wrong reply, man!
It's happen to post a message in the wrong section! Ok, my mistake, but the guy use a wrong words! I'm not a beginner kid or something and in the past I was myself moderator on some forums! So it is not the case to teach me someone how and what work things in that area !
The guy make an inappropriate reply, that's all! It's so simple! It's so hard to understand? I hope not!
http://www.kraftwin.blogspot.com
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Basic (BBC Micro)
GWBasic
Pascal
Scheme
C++
Prolog
Visual C++
Java
Visual Basic (Yes after I learned C++, I spent time and effort learning VB for fun )
C#/VB.NET
Objective C (Currently Learning)
I think one should start with one functional and one procedural language. I definitely recommend C++ over Java and C# (when starting). Reason is simple person who comes from C\C++ background is generally more conscious about resource utilization (memory, file handles, database connections) then a person who starts with Java or C#. A functional programming language is good because it offers one a different way to tackle problems using a different thinking pattern to solve a problem. All this help overall in making of a good programmer.
You have, what I would term, a very formal turn of phrase not seen in these isles since the old King passed from this world to the next. martin_hughes on VDK
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Rama Krishna Vavilala wrote: (Yes after I learned C++, I spent time and effort learning VB for fun
Same here, except it was not for fun - a client required VB, so I learned it
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Agree with Rama, for start i recommend using c/c++. After that, you can learn whatever you want, and have a hug reference resource to improve yourself. But language is just language, truly know about os, framework v.v.., thing that goes behind will improve your work.
ktmt's member.
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My route:
C
FORTRAN
C++
Java (Dumped it half way through)
Win32
VB (Dumped it in about 3 days)
Visual C++/MFC
C# (Dumped it in 6 months)
Now, living with C++ and occasional MFC.
Nobody can give you wiser advice than yourself. - Cicero
.·´¯`·->Rajesh<-·´¯`·.
Codeproject.com: Visual C++ MVP
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The best option is to start learning both Assembly and Basic AND C/C++ for different reasons.
- Assembly so as to learn the basics on how computer's inner workings...work and
- Basic so as to begin assembling your firts big programs that actually do something useful or entertaining.
- C++ so as to learn the basics of OOP and start getting into serious programming...
I strongly believe that ALL THREE above languages are required so that the novice learns good programming.
And something last: One should NOT FEAR Assembly because it is complicated or too low level. Just start studying it!
                 :|  ![Rose | [Rose]](https://www.codeproject.com/script/Forums/Images/rose.gif)
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The problem you have these days is that people want to jump in and just create highly visible programs to look cool when creating big (on screen) applications with as little code as possible.
I see myself as "old school" when it comes to development. You have to understand what you are using (hardware and software) before using it.
I find that most people shy away from coding and rather use clicking and dragging for development
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Unfortunately you are right.
Today most people see computers as "gadgets" rather than programmable computing machines.
This means that fewer and fewer people are concerned with the essence of developing and more and more people stay concentrated on the looks of the ready-made gadget (which they view as a 'black box' they know how to use but they don't care to learn how to programm ).
However the fact that people who care about real programming and the inner workings of PCs still exist, is a good thing.
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the language of kings
void izmoto(char* szKwazi);
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1) GWBasic/BASICA in early school days
2) Fortran/C/C++ in college second year
3) VB (brief entry) and then into Visual C++
4) The professional career background was with ASP/VBScript. Then into Microsoft .NET
For some reason, whenever something with VB comes near me, that actually and automatically withers off.
Vasudevan Deepak Kumar
Personal Homepage
Tech Gossips
A pessimist sees only the dark side of the clouds, and mopes; a philosopher sees both sides, and shrugs; an optimist doesn't see the clouds at all - he's walking on them. --Leonard Louis Levinson
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IMHO, starting language for studying is 'Scheme' (lisp dialect) and famous
book SICP (Structure and Interpretation of computer programs). Scheme/Lisp is
a very powerful language which can be extended with new syntax, i.e. you
can implement language in language. Starting with Lisp can give you wisdom of many fundamental conceps which are present in many modern languages like c#.
If you want to become commercial style coder as soon as possible, than the best choice probably whould be c#/java (i prefer c#) which have big codebase, coding
traditions and are actively used over the world.
If your target is low-level system or game programming (or anything requiring
performance or hardware access) than you should learn c/c++. Before starting
with c++, newbie should now that c++ is DIFFICULT language and you spend a lot
of time for mastering it. There are many people saying c++ is the best ... please ignore them - make your OWN opinion. If you still plan to study c++, please look at www.boost.org ... they are real masters, which know everything about c++
If you need language to write small utils QUICKLY than the best choice would be
Python/Ruby/Perl (i prefer Python). Python is a clean language with powerful
syntax and big codebase. Probably same is true for Ruby. And Perl is a language
with poor syntax/design, but with huge codebase and powerful in dealing with text.
If you plan to become web programmer, than you SHOULD learn javascript and HTML DOM. Additionally you should learn at least one server side programming language: c#&ASP.Net, java&JSP, PHP, Python&ZOPE, Ruby&(...). Even if you are
plan to write single-page AJAX application (with no server side functionality for page generation) you still need server side language for writing web services. Additionally you should study XSLT (+XML) which is a semi-programming
language for Data->HTML conversion.
Be patient the best prgoramming language is still not invented
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Around 8 year back, when I started learning professional programming in my college, I was introduced to pascal, there I learn basic structuring of program,i.e. how to write program in procedural way, learn to write array,function and procedure ( procedure in pascal is like function in C++ with no return values). after that I tried to learn C++ without knowing ABC of C. and now working in VC++.
Though I first introduced to computer in 1991, when I used to play basic computer game and use to program in BASIC afterward.. GOTO START . though I believe nobody is using BASIC anymore these days.
"Opinions are neither right nor wrong. I cannot change your opinion. I can, however, change what influences your opinion." - David Crow
Never mind - my own stupidity is the source of every "problem" - Mixture
cheers,
Alok Gupta
VC Forum Q&A :- I/ IV
Support CRY- Child Relief and You/codeProject$$>
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I started with BASIC (on an ORIC-1), then some more BASIC (ZX-Spectrum, Commodore 64), then QBasic and QuickBASIC. Later on, I moved to ASM, then TURBO Pascal, and finally C++. I don't know if I have ever done any "pure" C programming.
Ask not whether it is useful. Ask what it is useful for.
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I started with BASIC too, but i realy learned to program in HL language when i learned Pascal. So i think the entry level should be (OO) Pascal.
Afterwards you can continue in any direction.
ANSI C/C++ is a good start too.
If you are realy young and you have the time, i recomend assembler and some knowledge of computer architecture + binary operations.
The most important thing is who is your teacher or the author of the book you read. When i was forced to learn programming in Windows from a book called "QUE - Special Edition Using Visual C++ 6" i almost droped Windows forever. Luckily i've found The Forgers tutorial on win32 programming and later "Programming Windows" from Charles Petzold.
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Herl the Pearl wrote: don't know if I have ever done any "pure" C programming.
same here never tried my hand in pure "C"
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Yes. C is the best language to start with. The reason is its closeness to the assembly language and its openness to the high level language constructs.
Feel it yourself!
"Silence will create respect and dignity; justice and fair play will bring more friends;
benevolence and charity will enhance prestige and position; courtesy will draw benevolence;
service of mankind will secure leadership and good words will overcome powerful enemies"
Ali (Peace be upon him)
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Well there is C and C. The first incarnation of C was good for doing things but not for theaching beginners, IMHO. Later the ANSI C standard adopted many features of Pascal, in the way the source should look like and ANSI C++ even more. So i gues ANSI C/C++ is good enough for teaching begginers.
Way better than languages that have garbage collectors and massive libraries for doing all kinds of stuff.
ps - I now see that the title is for developers, not programmers (or even coders), so maybe the best starting point realy is .net or whatever is "hot" on the market. Sorry, my fault.
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Partially agree! I begin with C++ and after 1 year I learn VB. After that 4 years I used VB! It's very important what application you want to write. VB offers a short and convenient way to write good applications! Not always you need C++! It's an old and wrong discussion! You don't go with Ferrari to buy 1 kilo potato! For that you go with Ford or something like that! You must be practical!
I learn C++, VB, VBScript, JavaScript, ASP! I try to work almost three months with VB.Net and it's enough! It's not worth it! Better C++, JAVA, Python!
Now I want to learn a good language for future online application and with all recent changes I'm confuse!
http://www.kraftwin.blogspot.com
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I definitelly do not agree to this. C is a very powerful langugage, but it's not easy to learn for a beginner. It allows (and sometimes even requires) the use of very bad programming patterns and styles. Beginners should be enforced to use good style, correct variable declarations and stuff like this. Therefore, even if one wants to become a C or C++ programmer (as most probably do), I'd suggest learning Pascal or C# first, because they enforce a beginner to the "good" style of programming from the beginning.
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I dissagree with you as C FORCES you to define all your variable AT THE TOP of the current section of code.
it also teaches you to garbage collect, and if you use it properly (Don't abuse) then it works a lot better than C#, and even (sometimes) pascal. it also handles pointers, and reference based structures very well and doesn't have (what are to me) stange constructs to create a raw pointer. Just malloc() free().
However, I do say that Pascal would be an equal starting language to C.
The worst thing about the darkness is the light at the end - DX-MON
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I cannot simply agree with your views. As you said, C is powerful. In my experience, in order to become a developer who never fall short of ideas, one has to go through the hardship of learning a language like C.
I equally agree with you on Pascal. But as for C#, of course it offers nice features. But the problem is it hides a lot of things under the hood. What do you prefer for a programmer to first start with C and then C# or to first start with C# and then C? First option is better because it will ease the things because a C programmer would have achieved a good understanding of memory management, IO, use of CPU registers etc.
"Silence will create respect and dignity; justice and fair play will bring more friends;
benevolence and charity will enhance prestige and position; courtesy will draw benevolence;
service of mankind will secure leadership and good words will overcome powerful enemies"
Ali (Peace be upon him)
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You're right. I was maybe a bit short-handed on C# here. I agree that one has to learn the basics of memory managing, IO, etc the "hard way". What I don't like about C for beginners is that you're allowed to do a lot of odd things, like fiddling with the preprocessor more than necessary, doing manual address computations (where it's not really required), using a bunchload of global variables and stuff like that. That's why I think C# (or Java) may even be a bether choice than C in some ways. But preferably one learns Pascal first, which is as powerful as C but without some of its pitfalls.
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In other words if someone has a natural curiosity and is willing to continually learn new things then they will be fine. I guess that goes for a developer's whole career, not just their first steps.
If someone is lazy and incurious then their programming will never get anywhere, regardless of the language they learn on. In my opinion it's from this pool of people that "evangelists" emerge.
Murray
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