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Here you go... You are a freelancer, you have an ongoing customer who gives you work every month. He needs something new developed, which is a new ground for you (needless to say it's new to the customer as well). You have to learn (read a manual/tutorial and try something out first) before you will be able to accomplish the task. You are paid an hourly rate and charge for time spent working. Should you charge for time spent learning something which you need in order to finish the task?
I couldn't find almost nothing on Google, from the results of my research there are a few ways taken by different people:
- some will charge the normal rate
- some will lower the rate
- some will not charge
- some will raise the rate
Lowering or not charging is understandable because you feel it would be not fair to charge the customer for something you can't do right now. He could hire somebody else, who already is familiar it and can produce results faster, right?
People who charge the normal rate compare it to being an employee. Every now and then you have to improve your skills and learn a new technology you will need for the next project. But the difference I see is when you are a full time employee the boss wouldn't fire you because you didn't know something, then hire somebody else to do the job, then fire him and hire you again.  But freelancing is different - he can hire anybody just for this one project, can't he?
People who raise the rate... Although I know what their reasoning says, I don't quite get it. They say they raise the rate to scare off the customer who is forcing a project on them, where they don't know the technology and would have to learn. This supposedly is meant to protect the customer from wasting time and money. Wonder what happens when he agrees?
One things is certain - as a freelancer or not, you have to make a living, you gotta earn something. So, what are your thoughts? Charge for learning or not? If so, then how? Normal rate? Lower rate? Higher rate?
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What does your conscience tell you? That has to be your guide. It's no good us giving you advice if you wouldn't be morally comfortable following it.
As a customer though, I wouldn't be happy paying you for something that should take 2 weeks if it actually takes 6 weeks and I end up having to pay you for it because you spent four weeks learning it. More importantly, you wouldn't be providing an optimal solution because your work wouldn't be backed up by experience, so I would be getting hit twice here. But, as I say, it's up to you to decide how you want to proceed.
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Pete O'Hanlon wrote: It's no good us giving you advice if you wouldn't be morally comfortable following it.
If I won't be morally comfortable with something I will not follow it.
Honestly, my viewpoint is exactly the same as yours. Oh, one factor I forgot about is the usefulness of what you learn. What if the knowledge you posses by learning on this project would be useful to you on this project only? So what I want to say is you are learning something new to finish a task and then most likely never use that knowledge again. Does it change anything?
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Pawel Krakowiak wrote: Does it change anything?
If it was me, I'd say thanks but no thanks. Actually, we do have this situation from time to time when clients ask us to develop something in Java or Oracle because that's what they've got/been told to use. If I can't talk them round to using technology sets we're comfortable with, we will walk away. The only thing we would get by shafting the customer like this would be a bad name.
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Charge. Always charge.
Pull as much money out of that sucker as you can. There is no such thing as a fair price. There is only how much money the costumers is willing to pay.
Just make sure the terms (price, time to be spent) is clear from the start. Then the costumer can accept or reject.
So to answer your question: Charge if you think you can get away with it.
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Delphi4Ever wrote: Pull as much money out of that sucker as you can.
Well there's one way to maintain a long lasting business relationship! 
It is well known that it is easier to get repeat custom from an existing customer than it is to get a new customer on board. But if you want to use the model of sucking as much out of the customer as possible then having to use that extra money in persuading a new business to be your customer then go for it.
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wrote: costumers
 It's customer 
"I guess it's what separates the professionals from the drag and drop, girly wirly, namby pamby, wishy washy, can't code for crap types." - Pete O'Hanlon
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I've been working as an SDET (Software Design Eng in Test) for 8 years, building internal test tools (mostly in C++). It is now time to move on, and my interest is in .Net/C#/database work, although I haven't done much of taht for quite a while. Some of my test dev work is in C#, so it isn't totally foreign to me.
What is the best way to update my skills that is desireable for a new employer? Besides C#/SQL, are there other skills I should be looking at? Since I haven't been working for several years in these areas, how can I best sell myself at an interview? How valuable is certification? My impression has been that MCSEs are given out in cereal boxes lately, what about the MSTS or MSPD certs, do they have any credibility?
thanks all!
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Obviously nobody has any comment about your post 
"Real programmers just throw a bunch of 1s and 0s at the computer to see what sticks" - Pete O'Hanlon
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Hi friends, I hope I am posting in the right section. I am sure that u guys will be able to help me in this case. I am having a project on search-engine. Same as the windows search engine, it should search loacal files on the hard disk. Now I have no clue as to how to create an index (database). Creating a database manually will take me months. I hope there will be some command to index all the files on the Hard disk in Sql,Oracle etc. Or tell me of any idea you can get of indexing files on Hard disk.Now I think that codeproject forum is the programmers last resort, hence I am here. Hope u get some ideas soon.
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HI
i want to do certification in SQL Server 2005. But my job profile is not in which i have to maintain / install a data base. But i have to use data base for querying, Writing procedure ( T-Sql)
So pls can any one suggest which certification should i get.
MSTC for Sql Server 70 - 431 is for installation,Implimentation and Maintaince of Sql Server
Thanks
Vikram
Vikram
I Code...
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Have u done SQL Server 2000 certification(MCP).
if not you can do 70-229.... 
If U Get Errors U Will Learn
If U Don't Get Errors U Have Learnt
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Thanks....
Vikram
I Code...
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I am still learning the ins and outs of being a telecommuting developer. I recently returned from a trip outside the US, was gone for a while. Now I am sitting in a state far away from my office where other people are diligently working daily. I have another job that I am doing during the day which for this post I will leave out. Yet I am trying to help my company on projects that need to be completed.
I am trying to help yet feel as though I am pulling my hair out trying to understand this new DB schema. I look at columns and tables trying to get description, how the flow of the data will go. I have pages taped on my wall of diagrams trying to piece together the missing pieces in my mind on how it all fits. I've read the documentation that's been generated. Column and table descriptions are not really all that descriptive, almost vague. I find myself stuffing data into tables on my system trying to make it make sense. I have tasks to complete, and sometimes not really getting as many tasks as I would like, but have asked and asked and asked only to come up with even more questions. 
I am wondering if there are any other telecommuting developers out there and if they have any horror stories, experiences, lessons learned about walking into a project midstream and trying to pickup and understand where everyone else is at. Especially when you are trying to do it from home.
I am really trying to make this telecommuting work. I also appreciate if anyone has some good telecommuting tips too.
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Acopa wrote: I also appreciate if anyone has some good telecommuting tips too.
Good communication skills between home and office are very helpful 
"I've seen more information on a frickin' sticky note!" - Dave Kreskowiak
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I'm going to ditto Paul Conrad's response. I do not have any horror stories, because my in-office co-workers are as helpful as can be.
My company is located in New York. I worked there for 2 years but wanted to move to Kansas for personal reasons. (I know, I know. "Who moves to Kansas willingly?") When my boss realized that the move was really going to happen, he was very generous in offering me a telecommuting position.
Since then, I have been thrown into the middle of a couple of projects. When that happens, I typically end up spending as much as 3 hours on the phone (spread throughout the day) with my in-office co-worker who is the acting project manager. After the initial hand-off, additional emails, IMs, or phone calls ensue as more questions arise. Never are there complains or attitude from my co-workers. It probably helps that I had 2 years to build up my working relationships with them before I moved. But the point is that the communication is always wide open.
I am also conferenced in to weekly, department-wide status meetings, so I am always aware of the projects other developers are working on, even if I am not involved with the project. Finally, I am also conferenced into our monthly, company-wide meetings. It's hard to hear some people in the room, but the main presenters are the ones closest to the speaker phone, so I get the general idea of where things are at company-wide.
Minus the lack of the face-to-face interaction I used to have, I barely feel like I've left the office. Right now I'm looking at different web conferencing packages that will enable my co-workers and I to interactively share diagrams and things like we used to do as whiteboards. One of my in-office co-workers and I will be making a proposal to my boss sometime down the line when we're confident we've found the right package.
If you don't have a lot of communication, demmand it. You may be a telecommuter, but you're still part of the organization.
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Hi,
I have one core application. i made some enhancement over it(by adding new project, new file, new functionalities).
How can i know it's impact on over all core application
Soumya
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Regression testing is the only real way to assess what the impact was. This isn't really a work or training issue though, is it?
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Actually i am a developer i don't have much idea on Testing except UNIT TESTING
my client wants me a document which will specify the IMPACT of newly added part on core solution
Now please tell me what are the steps i need to do
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Well, regression testing is about comparing how your code behaves now to how it behaved before. The only things that should be different should relate to the changes you made.
Really, you need to think about what you are trying to do and what the code is doing. Try to assess the likely impact of changes by looking at what is going to be affected and seeing what code is actually going to be changed.
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Can we install VB6 and .Net in same OS?
i mean when i try to install VB6 in XP where .net is already installed,its asking to update Java VM only not goin further for VB6 installation.
Cheers
Bino
www.codepal.co.nr
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This forum is for work and training issues. Post your question in the VB forum.
Paul Marfleet
"No, his mind is not for rent
To any God or government"
Tom Sawyer - Rush
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I fail to see how this is a "Work and Training" issue...
But, the two can be run side-by-side with no problems. But, you MUST install VB6 FIRST, then you can install any higher version of Visual Studio .NET.
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