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you've missed the forest for the trees dude.
MadHatter ¢ wrote: I have seen games written using these layers, and its not to say that a game *couldn't* implement these things, its just that game developers come from a different school of thought (small, concise, and light weight).
I wouldn't say you're talking through your ass (nor do I think thats what I implied), but I think you're missing the point I was trying to make
I've both seen and written games that use a fully blown n-tier architecture, but I have actually seen more (and would say that the majority of the engines out there today do not implement such) that do not... that is to say, you could not exchange their <insert layer / concept here> data access layer without a ton of re-engineering.
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MadHatter ¢ wrote: you've missed the forest for the trees dude.
So have you.
MadHatter ¢ wrote:
I wouldn't say you're talking through your ass (nor do I think thats what I implied), but I think you're missing the point I was trying to make
I've both seen and written games that use a fully blown n-tier architecture, but I have actually seen more (and would say that the majority of the engines out there today do not implement such) that do not... that is to say, you could not exchange their <insert layer="" concept="" here=""> data access layer without a ton of re-engineering.
Well, your missing the point I'd say. Since the point is that these layers exist in games and you seem to be denying it to an extent. I'm only saying that these layers exist regardless of how you choose to think about them.
It appears to me that you are being a stickler for a hard line definition of the layers. I'm going for a more loose interpretation. Regardless of how "coupled" they are.
Argue all you want. But the layers are there. If you don't like that.. whatever. L8r dude. You can see it your way, I'll see it mine.
This statement was never false.
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void main() {<br />
printf("hello world");<br />
}
I cannot call that a presentation layer. sorry.
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Neither would I. Sorry, but is that all there is to your software?
This statement was never false.
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>I don't have any Data Access Layers, Business Logic, or Presentation Layers
Yes you do. Those are generic terms applicable to all types of applications. In case of a game, for example:
Data Access Layer: Load level data, Save player data
Business Logic: Process user input, enemy AI etc.
Presentation Layer: User Interface aka Rendered Graphics.
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there is data and drawing code, I do not deny that, but each class handles it's own stuff. Using the word "layer" indicates, for instance, that all the drawing code is in one place.
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> Using the word "layer" indicates, for instance, that all the drawing code is in one place.
Not really. A layer can consist of many classes. It's just one possible view of the system, just like partitioning a system in classes or files.
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So you are saying there's "a presentation layer" in there somewhere amongst those classes, even though none of the classes are organised in that way?
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Perhaps erroneously so, but my impression of this layered scenario is something to the effect:
Call-it-what-you-will Function<br />
Presentation Layer ------ Get the data from something or someone<br />
Business Logic ------ Checks out the data: validates, processes, etc.<br />
Data Layer ------ Data storage
It all seemslike yet another jargon to dazzle spectators and listeners. It perhaps servers a purpose beyond that, which I may learn to appreciate. Does it really clarify compared to whatever descriptions it replaces? That's the question.
Balboos
Note On my modification: Is there an easy way to have neat columns with these posts?
"The difference between genius and stupidity is that genius has its limits." - Albert Einstein
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jeroen94704 wrote: > Data Access Layers, Business Logic, or Presentation Layers
Those are generic terms applicable to all types of applications.
No. Those are hollow terms used by low aperture business-software-manager guys to obfuscate where the real work is done.
I admit that this type of industry is booming ATM. But nonetheless they should stop seeing their poit of view as the only one.
Sorry for the rant...was nothing personal.
Failure is not an option - it's built right in.
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Whatever you call it is irrelevant. A layered model is a useful view of a system in some contexts, just like other views are useful in other contexts. Someone who draws nothing but a static class-diagram and calls it "design" has no right to call himself a Software Engineer.
Nothing personal of course
Jeroen
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Deployment?
Brad
Australian
- Bradml on "MVP Status"
If this was posted in a programming board please rate my answer
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It's there at least...
Developers, Developers, Developers, Developers, Developers, Developers, Velopers, Develprs, Developers! We are a big screwed up dysfunctional psychotic happy family - some more screwed up, others more happy, but everybody's psychotic joint venture definition of CP Linkify!|Fold With Us!
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Sorry, that's been outsourced to India.
/ravi
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Does you app have a user interface? Behind that user interface are you Doing Stuff With Data? What about inputing and outputing data your app uses from a file store, database, network...?
cheers,
Chris Maunder
CodeProject.com : C++ MVP
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Hmmm... no, just having lines of code and making them do something
e.g. I hate arranging controls -it's tedious, and everybody has his own most important button that must be bigger thaan the rest. But wiring the controls to "think ahead" and give a smooth UI experience is fun again
Developers, Developers, Developers, Developers, Developers, Developers, Velopers, Develprs, Developers! We are a big screwed up dysfunctional psychotic happy family - some more screwed up, others more happy, but everybody's psychotic joint venture definition of CP Linkify!|Fold With Us!
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DUH! -- the guy forgot the most important part!!!
Ditto here!
You can disregard all of the other options.
Ha, ha, ha.
David
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