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bob16972 wrote: One could only logically conclude that software written with buggy tools probably has bugs within it. Saying the buggy tool is only buggy for you while your coding and compiling but your compiled products are clean and free of defects from that product is not a logical conclusion.
Actually one could logically conclude that whether or not a text editor has any bugs is irrelevant to what the compiler generates.
Matt Newman
Even the very best tools in the hands of an idiot will produce something of little or no value. - Chris Meech on Idiots
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I guess you should read the survey again...
"If you had the choice between using a product that increased your productivity but was buggy, versus a product that was rock solid but missing some time saving functionality, which would you choose?"
third party products can include class libraries, controls, and dll's as well as IDE's and compilers.
They have time saving functionality in the sense that they are already written and you drop them into your app. However, if they are buggy, your customers will soon realize this as they use your product which includes their source code one way or another.
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You're on the right track as my thoughts. I see too many developers who make decisions based on what's faster and easier for them. Software development is about making the lives of customers easier, not the life of the programmer.
To comment on bugs...I'd rather have software that does what it says it does without issue but be lacking in features than software that does more but doesn't work well or crashes.
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Harrier wrote: Software development is about making the lives of customers easier, not the life of the programmer.
5!
My programming blahblahblah blog. If you ever find anything useful here, please let me know to remove it.
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Harrier wrote: not the life of the programmer.
I was with you till that. Computers are tools for anyone. They are supposed to make the lives of everyone/anyone easier including developers.
That said I think we need to clarify what we are arguing about. There are two areas that pertain to this discussion: IDE bugs and Compiler/Output bugs. Compiler/Output bugs are 100% unaccpetable, IDE bugs are up to the tolerance of the developer.
Matt Newman
Even the very best tools in the hands of an idiot will produce something of little or no value. - Chris Meech on Idiots
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I guess you should read the survey again...
"If you had the choice between using a product that increased your productivity but was buggy, versus a product that was rock solid but missing some time saving functionality, which would you choose?"
third party products can include class libraries, controls, and dll's as well as IDE's and compilers.
They have time saving functionality in the sense that they are already written and you drop them into your app. However, if they are buggy, your customers will soon realize this as they use your product which includes their source code one way or another.
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Actually I was thinking about beta software in general. I'm a bandit for installing beta products in the elusive search for new features that will make my life easier. Sometimes, though, I hit this point where I wonder whether battling with not-quite-fully-tested software is worth the "savings" in time I make.
Usually the answer for me is "yes".
The absolute worst, though, are products that seem like they work and which aren't fully backwards compatible with previous versions. You get sucked into the cool new features then hit a bug that won't allow you to move forward. Can't go forward, can't step back.
cheers,
Chris Maunder
CodeProject.com : C++ MVP
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It would be great if large apps like VS were more modular. That way you can add and add up your own comfort point.
You could also swop out parts that don't work that well.
Cheers,
Simon
> latest article :: animation mechanics in SVG
> blog:: brokenkeyboards
> another site of mine :: JeanPant.com
> CV :: PDF
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CURIOUS??? Is anyone else whom has installed the VS2005 suite experiencing regular crashes of their Computer Browser service? It's now happening on 3 of 3 developer machines at my workplace... 
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I have been installing and using it without trouble since pre-beta and never encountered this.
Matt Newman
Even the very best tools in the hands of an idiot will produce something of little or no value. - Chris Meech on Idiots
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