|
Yes; and I charge you $200 US dollars for the observation.
Bastard Programmer from Hell 
"If you just follow the bacon Eddy, wherever it leads you, then you won't have to think about politics." -- Some Bell.
|
|
|
|
|
These are not the droids you are looking for.
|
|
|
|
|
Yes, me again, ranting about Win10 updates again.
So having stopped, disabled and renamed the Windows Update service things had been going OK for a while. Then it started prompted me to do an update, which I delayed (depending on the route you take to open the dialog, you can do this for up to either 7 days or 21 days... go figure). All goes well for a while. Then it tells me my version is no longer supported, I *must* update (I'm actually OK with using an "obsolete" operating system like Windows 10). I can do it either NOW this instant, or in an hour. Well I'm in the middle of something, so I choose "in an hour". Finish what I'm doing, but now's OK, I have a couple of hours before I have to set off on a journey. But there is, apparently, no way to trigger an immediate update manually. All I can do is change my active hours, which I do, as it also said an option was to do it during inactive hours. So I change active hours, and wait... and wait... nothing. So I simply do a shutdown / restart, as it described the update process as "requires a restart" - I assume it's already done the downloads. Takes about 5 minutes but... nothing. No update. 
Further googling identifies a keystroke combination which will give me a shutdown menu that includes "shutdown and update". I choose that option. By now a fair bit of time has gone by and I need to be on the road in around an hour. After 55 minutes it's still on "4% - don't close your computer". Bugger that, I've places to be, things to do, people to see. So I close the lid and figure it'll just have to cope. It's 2021 after all.
That evening, I power it on; "Undoing updates" it says for about 40 minutes. Then starts prompting me to update windows.
This time I tell it to do it "now", and go to bed.
This morning, I start up (it's shut itself down) and my Classic Shell is GONE. I'm left with the *&£^$ useless Windows start screen or whatever it's called. Takes me a while to find Classic Shell (it's not deleted, just config changed so it doesn't run at startup... WHY?) and manage to get a usable start menu again.
I need to fire up Bluestacks (an android emulator) for work, but nothing happens. Task manager shows me it's launched, but no CPU activity and no interface. Several attempts later, (running as Admin and in Win7 compatibility mode) I manage to get a message; this version of Bluestacks won't run with Hypervisor running. Well, no, I know that which is why I'd disabled HyperV. The update had re-enabled it (silently). So I disable HyperV, but that has no effect whatsoever; even with it "disabled", Bluestacks still tells me its running. I spend ages un-installing Bluestacks and re-installing a different version that runs with HyperV. That works, so I spend more time re-installing the apps I need to use in Bluestacks and resetting passwords (which have been lost).
Out of curiosity, I wonder what WinUpdate has done that's so vital, and why it now HAS to have HyperV, and why it HAS to disable ClassicShell. So I startup Windows Update History - the screen is blank. Yep, updating Windows has totally lost the Windows Update History - including the latest update. I've no idea what has been applied.
Just now I needed to FTP something to a host. B**$~$& me, Windows has lost ALL my saved FTP passwords. I don't have a copy of them so I then had to reset all the FTP passwords and all the shortcuts and configuration of apps that use FTP to my host.
Windows Update has cost me at least five hours of wasted time, and goodness knows what else it's broken I've yet to discover. I've no information about what Windows Updates have been applied, and apart from stuff that's broken, there is no apparent evidence that anything has changed whatsoever. Not even a new icon. 
WTF, MS, WTF? And how many hundred million times is this farce being repeated globally?
|
|
|
|
|
|
I used Zorin once to save the $100 windows license fee. Worst $100 I never spent.
I will forever happily pay a windows license. Linux sucks. 
|
|
|
|
|
I'm terribly sorry that you had such a bad experience, but the obvious retort is, "If you had kept up with the updates, you wouldn't have had a problem." 
The difficult we do right away...
...the impossible takes slightly longer.
|
|
|
|
|
And besides all that, who's PC do you think it is, anyway? Certainly not his.
Programs that behave like Windoze, downloading things you don't want (or elese!) seem to me to be straddling the line between malware and ransomware.
| Ravings en masse^ |
|---|
| "The difference between genius and stupidity is that genius has its limits." - Albert Einstein | | "If you are searching for perfection in others, then you seek disappointment. If you seek perfection in yourself, then you will find failure." - Balboos HaGadol Mar 2010 |
|
|
|
|
|
W∴ Balboos, GHB wrote: downloading things you don't want (or elese!)
Years ago people were suing Microsoft because they did not automatically keep their OS's update to date for security reasons. Now that Microsoft does a better job keeping it up to date, nobody wants them to auto update.
Can't win.
|
|
|
|
|
SeanChupas wrote: Now that Microsoft does a better job keeping it up to date, nobody wants them to auto update.
Let's say that they do a lot more updates, but that with keeping up-to-date is arguable.
M.D.V. 
If something has a solution... Why do we have to worry about?. If it has no solution... For what reason do we have to worry about?
Help me to understand what I'm saying, and I'll explain it better to you
Rating helpful answers is nice, but saying thanks can be even nicer.
|
|
|
|
|
Legally, he owns the hardware, not the software.
The difficult we do right away...
...the impossible takes slightly longer.
|
|
|
|
|
No, I don't believe that's the issue. I can see no rational explanation for why, when Windows detects I've gone to the bother of replacing it's crappy start page with a better menu system, that an upgrade should disable that for me.
Why can't they make keep the update history tool working? It always used to work, now it doesn't. At all.
What is the rationale behind "losing" all the passwords for my FTP network places as part of an "upgrade"? It's hard to believe there could be any. If they really have to re-enable Hyper-V when I've explicitly disabled it, then why not at least include some sort of messaging / report to let me know they've had to re-enable it?
It's a combination of laziness, ignorance, arrogance and stupidity.
Plus, when I purchased Win10 (or rather, purchased a laptop with Win10), I assumed I was buying into a working system. And indeed, it did work for me - once I'd discovered it's quirks, illogical and inconsistent interfaces etc, and installed some 3rd party tools to do the things I expect of an op.system that were missing. I never asked Microsoft to bombard me with demands to replace or remove perfectly usable functionality, to demand that I spend time and electricity applying updates I never needed, wanted or requested.
|
|
|
|
|
But you're ignoring the fact that it sounds like you hacked the update system, and now are complaining that it doesn't work right. If I'm wrong, please correct me.
The difficult we do right away...
...the impossible takes slightly longer.
|
|
|
|
|
Some comments:
DerekT-P wrote: All goes well for a while. Then it tells me my version is no longer supported, I *must* update
1.) A few weeks ago (May 11, 2021) version 1803 reached end of support. This implies that you are on version 1803 and have not updated your operating system in a *very* long time. Version 1803 was released in April of 2018 and you have skipped over versions 1809, 1903, 1909, 2004.
When you updated... the operating system had to come all the way up to 20H2. FYI, this type of update is very similar to (and based upon the same framework) a full installation.
DerekT-P wrote: Out of curiosity, I wonder what WinUpdate has done that's so vital, and why it now HAS to have HyperV
There are many people trying to make computing a better/safer place and because of the architectural problems in modern processors... they have to rely on virtualization-based security[^] to keep you safe. UEFI Secure Boot was probably enabled too along with a myriad of other features.
I would recommend that you do not delay your operating system updates for over two years.
Best Wishes,
-David Delaune
|
|
|
|
|
Randor wrote: When you updated... the operating system had to come all the way up to 20H2. FYI, this type of update is very similar to (and based upon the same framework) a full installation.
I would not say that much... a clean installation usually works way better than such a big update.
M.D.V.
If something has a solution... Why do we have to worry about?. If it has no solution... For what reason do we have to worry about?
Help me to understand what I'm saying, and I'll explain it better to you
Rating helpful answers is nice, but saying thanks can be even nicer.
|
|
|
|
|
Nelek wrote: I would not say that much... a clean installation usually works way better than such a big update.
I'm not sure but I think that you might have misunderstood my post. I wasn't implying anything about the quality of the update.
I was simply saying that Windows 10 feature updates are very similar to a full installation. Some of the code behind the update is the same code that's used in the installation. I spent a few years on the Windows Update team and worked on some of that.
Anyway, my point is that nobody should be delaying updates for over two years.
Best Wishes,
-David Delaune
Edit:
Sorry, I am really bad at assuming others will make inferences from implied information. The 'full installation' spiel is to explain why his FTP passwords and Classic Shell was replaced. The feature update image overwrites those parts of the registry.
modified 21-May-21 19:13pm.
|
|
|
|
|
Randor wrote: I spent a few years on the Windows Update team and worked on some of that.
I know, you have told it a couple of times. And I know how skilled and experienced you are 
Randor wrote: I was simply saying that Windows 10 feature updates are very similar to a full installation. Some of the code behind the update is the same code that's used in the installation.
Yes, I took that way. But that's why I told that sometimes it is better to do a clean installation anyways, because my subjective experience is that it gives less problems.
As I always separate System from Data either in partitions or in different drives in all the devices where I put my hands on, it is less usual that we have problems with data losses. But anyways...
My In-Law has already have a couple of problems after big updates (Printer, Monitor, remote drives and a couple of weirdos more) and my Media laptop (which actually is pretty basic... windows, drivers, office, pdf, 7-zip and vlc, that's all) has given me a couple of WTF! moments after an update too.
So at the end I re-did the Install-USB with the media creation tool to download the new Version and clean install it after the major update... Almost all of the problems didn't come with the clean install.
And I think there are several CPians having had similar experiences...
Randor wrote: Anyway, my point is that nobody should be delaying updates for over two years.
I agree, but on the other hand, the updates should give way less problems and people wouldn't stop them. You have to recognize that the update process has lost a lot of quality latelly and that the people is pissed / sceptical and try to avoid them is not that surprisign. If it is a good or a bad idea... I leave it at one's discretion.
I don't stop them, but I try to always reduce the collateral damages as much as I can and to have a Plan-B ready...
Randor wrote: The 'full installation' spiel is to explain why his FTP passwords and Classic Shell was replaced. The feature update image overwrites those parts of the registry.
A clean installation would have lost that too
M.D.V. 
If something has a solution... Why do we have to worry about?. If it has no solution... For what reason do we have to worry about?
Help me to understand what I'm saying, and I'll explain it better to you
Rating helpful answers is nice, but saying thanks can be even nicer.
|
|
|
|
|
Well, that's simply an incorrect assumption. Just searching this forum for my rants will reveal my last major disruption was only a few months ago when I applied all Windows updates (and it deleted many settings, broke other stuff etc). Like presumably every other Windows 10 user I no longer have an Update History tool that provides any info whatsoever, so I can't tell you which updates have been applied or when. But it's not so very long ago that I discovered some old .SWF files (flash), that have been on my system for ages and are definitely not a threat, but were useful to me, no longer run without needing to install 3rd party tools. I believe this was done in KB4577586 when updating to v1909, so more recently than October 2020.
Maybe I've "hacked" the update system, but Windows thinks otherwise. I stopped, disabled the wsuauserv service and for a while that reduced the prompts to update. However when, last week, I started getting the "you must update" messages, I checked and wsuauserv was very much alive and kicking again. As far as I'm concerned, if MS is making unauthorised system changes to my machine, they're hacking me, NOT the other way around.
"Lots of updates to apply" would never, in my book at least, be an excuse for deleting passwords.
|
|
|
|
|
I'm with Richard on this one, not only did you hack the update system but you closed (turned off?) the computer when expressly told not to. IMHO you can't bitch at MS when you circumvent their standard procedures.
Never underestimate the power of human stupidity -
RAH
I'm old. I know stuff - JSOP
|
|
|
|
|
You may not recall but in earlier Windows versions the update process gave you information about what it was doing.
When the update sits at 1% or 2% with no apparent activity, no explanation of what is happening, and has been like that for well over half an hour just how much time and electricity does MS want us to waste? 20 years ago I could have understood a power outage during an update causing unexpected consequences. In 2021, with an army of developers and phenomenal impact when things go wrong (there are hundreds of millions of Windows installations; billions?) then one would expect MS to be able to engineer recoverable processes. If not, they must provide a get-out option for those who do not wish their systems to be severely disrupted.
|
|
|
|
|
I think one has to go along with the update philosophies of any operating system. My main system is not Windows, but I try to keep all Windows VM's up to date. If I go to settings and tell it to check for updates, it will always update right away. If I don't want to risk updates when I am doing something, I disable the NIC.
I always have a copy one update back just in case. I don't recall Windows ever messing with Classic Shell other than having to allow CS to reconfigure itself. Don't recall too much to grumble about, a few times it did update when I ran a job overnight. Grumbled then. Old people grumble a lot. 
I think you are wise to rant, clears out the cobwebs.
If you can keep your head while those about you are losing theirs, perhaps you don't understand the situation.
|
|
|
|
|
You are way off the happy path, and the other problem is the kiddie coders at msft have no clue about actual use scenarios and they only know people who install updates immediately without question.
You are not compliant with their world view.
|
|
|
|
|
 You're right about being way off "happy"!
Do Microsoft actually know how much people loathe them?
ps it's telling me to update AGAIN today! Is this normal? Every four days???
|
|
|
|
|
Since @SanderRosell must be busy with other things today, I'm submitting a SOTW in his stead. If he's simply forgotten then, this song is actually appropriate.
steven wilson - 12 things i forgot - Bing video[^]
"Go forth into the source" - Neal Morse
"Hope is contagious"
|
|
|
|
|
Here's my contribution: [SFW]
SOTW[^]
The difficult we do right away...
...the impossible takes slightly longer.
|
|
|
|
|
 maybe SR will hear this .. great choice indeed, the shortest SOTW ever and highly relevant
|
|
|
|
|
General 
News 
Suggestion 
Question 
Bug 
Answer 
Joke 
Praise 
Rant 
Admin 
Submit an article or tip
