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I'm winding down on a big refactoring project and have had some free time on my hands. The question was, how do I spend it? Well, glad you asked! I've heard a lot about 'fake news' these days and I started digging around. One thing led to another and before long I came across an article stating that Amazon has quietly shelved all books relating to the Holocaust that do not promote the traditional view I learned. Low and behold, it was true. To find out what the brouhaha was about I looked for one of the books that was dropped. It is titled "Debating the Holocaust - a new look at both sides" by Thomas Dalton. To see what all the fuss was about, I found an online copy and started reading it. Well now, I've only just gotten through the first chapter, I must say it makes a number of very intriguing points, raises some very interesting questions but, from what I've read so far, does not offer anything that resembles 'hate literature'. I'll keep reading and see what else it offers. The question is, did Amazon cave in to 'special interest groups' and this is another example of how our civil rights and liberties are slowing being distorted and curtailed? Stay tuned, I'll let you know once I've finished the book.
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This has the stench of SoapBox written all over it in many different ways. 
There are two kinds of people in the world: those who can extrapolate from incomplete data.
There are only 10 types of people in the world, those who understand binary and those who don't.
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This post can easily get inappropriate for the lounge.
There are two kinds of people in the world: those who can extrapolate from incomplete data.
There are only 10 types of people in the world, those who understand binary and those who don't.
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Wow, my first 'conspiracy book' and I think I just got 'flamed'.  Now, my curiosity is definitely tweaked I will definitely have to finish the book.
Cheers,
Ian
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Perhaps you don't comprehend that hate literature is, as often as not, wrapped up in honey. Essentially, build a large background of subtle denials. Then use them to reference one another to prove their point.
That, however, now leads right back to your post - perhaps the concept of fake news is. in actuality, your posting this as though said books were suppressed. That, alone, goes a long way to qualify as hate speech of its own. Just say "they" are suppressing some secret truth or taking away some right. "Special Interest Groups" - who are you bullshitting with that line? Who could you possibly mean? Nod. Wink. Wink. Perhaps your jackboots need some polish?
Your post, in it's special way, isn't up to the standards of the Soapbox. There, at least, we stand up and scream aloud!
| Ravings en masse^ |
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| "The difference between genius and stupidity is that genius has its limits." - Albert Einstein | | "If you are searching for perfection in others, then you seek disappointment. If you are seek perfection in yourself, then you will find failure." - Balboos HaGadol Mar 2010 |
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Lighten up and stop taking yourself so seriously. My original comment was intended as a light hearted banter on finally having some free time, the evils of fake news, Amazon and what certainly is my very first conspiracy book - without having your heated breath on my neck. Looks like RyanDev was bang on the money when he said this can easily get inappropriate. Now is a good time to bow out. Enjoy your day.
Cheers,
Ian
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There are hardly any left anymore.
But I have met two men that were in concentration camps.
I don't have any reason to doubt what they were telling me.
The only myth I know about is that they were closed in 1945.
I recommend a visit.
I've been to Buchenwald and I will bring my kids there when they are old enough.
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I think the question was about amazon removing books rather than the Holocaust.
Regarding the Holocaust itself, why are the 5 million dead Slavs never mentioned?
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Now, really, was it?
As for your other question, because noone's pushing it.
How many people knows about Holodomor?
There's a really big difference betweeen ignorance and outright denial.
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You gave the impression, by not responding to the OPs point, that you had missed it. 
Anyway, Holodomor, never heard of it, until now. These were the Tartars they wiped out was it? I heard they had ben targeted, didnt know the figures though. (just looked it up on wiki)
As for the Holocaust, of course Hitler explicitly supported Jewish emigration to Palestine: Haavara Agreement - Wikipedia[^]
Doesnt mean he was a Zionist per-se, but it does mean he didnt intend to kill them. So, why didnt it work? Read the small print: "The agreement provided a substantial export market for German factories in British-ruled Palestine" Right, OK, so the nation that 80 years earlier went to war with China so it could continue to sell its population Opium rejected the emigration of Jews from Germany probably because it would damage UK trade.
In fact the general resistance to accepting Jews fleeing Germany pre WWII was high: Google[^]
Patria was carrying about 1,800 Jewish refugees from Nazi-occupied Europe whom the British authorities were deporting from Mandatory Palestine to Mauritius because they lacked entry permits[^]
more than 900 Jews fled Germany aboard a luxury cruise liner, the SS St Louis. They hoped to reach Cuba and then travel to the US - but were turned away in Havana and forced to return to Europe, where more than 250 were killed by the Nazis[^]
The Abandonment of the Jews - Wikipedia[^]
Things are never as black and white as history pretends.
For example, Fascist Italy did almost nothing about Jews, yet France, not only actively deported Jews to concentration camps (from Vichy France), also made the Zyklon-B used to gas them.
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Thank you Matt. Nice to see someone who does not get his pants in knot and does not lose all perspective. I am starting to get a notion of what all the brouhaha is about just by reading the comments being posted here.
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No worries, virtue is never as cheap as when accusing someone of being an anti-semite.
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To answer the question : no. Amazon is a private entity and as such can choose what they want to sell. We do not have the right to tell them what they can and can not sell. This means our rights and liberties have not been distorted or curtailed in the slightest in this case.
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Ha, make a liar out of me!
Yesterday, I spent the morning looking for the book. When I tried Amazon.com (and Amazon.ca - for us Canadians, eh?) I received a notice that "the URL was not available" and to go to the main page. I could order the book from Barnes and Noble as well as European web sites but then found an online copy at archive.org. Anyways, I'll give it a read - if only to tick off Balbos.
Cheers,
Ian
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I did not intend my OP to be taken so seriously. But I do appreciate the time, thought and consideration you put into your comment. Nevertheless, we should refrain from further commentary as it will entice the 'jackboots' (e.g. Balbos) to come out of hiding - my bad!
Cheers,
Ian
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 Well said!
"Go forth into the source" - Neal Morse
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Ian Bell, #2 wrote: The question was, how do I spend it?
I vote for fishing.
"the debugger doesn't tell me anything because this code compiles just fine" - random QA comment
"Facebook is where you tell lies to your friends. Twitter is where you tell the truth to strangers." - chriselst
"I don't drink any more... then again, I don't drink any less." - Mike Mullikins uncle
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A great idea, but just not up here (i.e. Canada) and just now. Up here, the lakes are frozen over. But we always have a few who win the Darwin Award of the Year for not 'believing' a truck and ice house are not heavy enough to go through the ice.
Cheers,
Ian
modified 25-Mar-17 14:17pm.
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Ian Bell, #2 wrote: i.e. Canada) and just now. Up here, the lakes are frozen over.
In the Chicago area we had about 12 hours of ice fishing or so it seemed this year. Hell, in Canada I'd be out on a daily basis ice fishing if I could, and I have yet to go through the ice in 30+ years of ice fishing.
"the debugger doesn't tell me anything because this code compiles just fine" - random QA comment
"Facebook is where you tell lies to your friends. Twitter is where you tell the truth to strangers." - chriselst
"I don't drink any more... then again, I don't drink any less." - Mike Mullikins uncle
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Could you be right? Sure. Are you likely right? I doubt it.
As you pointed out, there are two sides to every story (at a minimum!) So Amazon's side of the story is probably something along these lines:
People (generally) don't know how to think critically anymore. A person can still be smart, but people (especially those in Amazon's first and presumably still primary market, the US,) are a rather ignorant and easily cowed lot anymore. If we (Amazon) offer to sell books that hold an unpopular opinion, we (Amazon) will most likely be seen to support that point of view. This will lead to loss of customer base, and lost revenue, which is obviously a bad thing.
Any special interest group can go to Amazon and ask them to stop selling X or Y product for A or B reason. But being a business, they aren't going to do anything that negatively affects profits. Could they be bribed enough money to more than compensate for lost sales? Maybe. But could you imagine the even bigger hit to sales if that bribery ever came to light? I doubt there's enough money available in circulation to compensate for the precipitous fall Amazon could be subjected to for a misstep.
Now, as to the Holocaust issue (I promise to keep this lounge worthy,) I am not a Holocaust denier. I'm only 31, so obviously I have no first hand proof one way or the other. I've also never met a survivor to hear their story, so no second hand knowledge either. However, it seems silly to deny that the Holocaust ever happened, given that it would require millions of people to have lied about what happened during that period (which borders on conspiracy levels of paranoia to think that everyone would cover it up...)
I also believe that the motivations leading to the atrocities of the Holocaust are many and varied. I won't go as far as to say they were justified (because seriously, any grown person should understand that what happened was objectively wrong,) but sometimes situations get so far out of hand that it is beyond one person to correct. I'm glad that someone took the time to explore the issue from both sides and get it published. At the very least, understanding the reasons and motivations of the Nazi party will help prevent something similar from ever happening again.
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Another thoughtful and considerate respond. Thank you. But again, as I have stated and implied in other comments, my intention was never to spark a political discussion. I am just coming off an intense refactoring session and am just blowing off a little steam. The honest truth is I simply needed an interesting diversion that will help me to relax, I inadvertently came across a blog commentary about Amazon and this led me down the proverbial rabbit hole.
For the record, I have never and do not deny any of the atrocities that were committed in WW2. I am a strong believer in hearing both sides of every story and my curiosity leads me to read this particular book. What I find most interesting is some of the 'blowback' I have received so far and this is another of the points addressed in the first and only chapter I've read so far. I am getting the impression the issue is comparable to religious indoctrination and must never be questioned. If this is true, that would be a very, very interesting and telling observation.
Cheers,
Ian
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Yeah, no, I got that. I was just giving my opinion on the topic. We're reaching a point where WW2 was far enough in the past that 'historical tomfoolery' is possible, since those that were actually alive at the time are becoming fewer and fewer.
This is both unfortunate (reduces accurate accounts) and fortunate (we can begin to explore the situation from different angles without upsetting as many people.) I never thought about it from the angle of it being akin to religious indoctrination. As you say, if accurate, it would be quite interesting indeed.
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