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Munchies_Matt wrote: colleges producing
Munchies_Matt wrote: IT professionals
Colleges do not produce professionals, professions produce them.
I think that universities should teach method and the framework of technology (how networks work, what's an operating system and what does it actually do, how does a generic processor work, a programming language for each paradigm and not much more) and the rest falls on the individual. That's because if the universities teach the current state of the art while neglecting the basis they would produce individuals that would decay in a decade since single technologies move forward and they'd lack the basis to understand the change. I could choose between the University of Turin, where I would have learned a lot of new shiny technologies, or the Politechnic university of Turin, where the focus in on generic Engineering steered towards computer science. I chose the latter and didn't regret it as I saw in these years that I'm really far more versatile than those who graduated at the former.
Of course many universities fail in both cases...
* CALL APOGEE, SAY AARDWOLF
* GCS d--- s-/++ a- C++++ U+++ P- L- E-- W++ N++ o+ K- w+++ O? M-- V? PS+ PE- Y+ PGP t++ 5? X R++ tv-- b+ DI+++ D++ G e++>+++ h--- ++>+++ y+++* Weapons extension: ma- k++ F+2 X
* Never pay more than 20 bucks for a computer game.
* I'm a puny punmaker.
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That is a good point, with the fundamentals well understood the day to day technology, that goes in and out of fashion, is easy to understand.
However.... When I was doing OO SW design post grad we had to use Small Talk, since it was supposedly a 'pure' OO language. Problem is I spent so much time caught up on the frigging awful syntax of the language that I couldnt focus on the OO architectural aspect of the job.
And how much use is assembler these days?
Pros and cons, pros and cons.
However this OP clearly has a very poor understanding of what a messenger is, the clue is in the name really, messages and transport. Its such a simple design, and as for using SQL to implement it, what the f&^* is he thinking!
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Munchies_Matt wrote: However.... When I was doing OO SW design post grad we had to use Small Talk, since it was supposedly a 'pure' OO language. Problem is I spent so much time caught up on the frigging awful syntax of the language that I couldnt focus on the OO architectural aspect of the job.
I don't know when it was but it there was a time where it was pushed as TheNextBigThing.
Munchies_Matt wrote: And how much use is assembler these days?
More than you and me can imagine, real time systems are actually fairly popular in automation and assembler is paramount in those fields (I work in automation). Also high parallelism computing-intensive operations require either assembler or a solid understanding of it to use the lockless paradigms and understand what memory fences are and how they impact performance and functionality (i.e. the system doesn't deadlock). Compilers and hardware integration / developement are two fields where assembler is still going strong as many PICs have poor, incomplete or no C support at all.
Munchies_Matt wrote: However this OP clearly has a very poor understanding of what a messenger is, the clue is in the name really, messages and transport. Its such a simple design, and as for using SQL to implement it, what the f&^* is he thinking!
And a fellow former student I know, graduated with full grades, didn't know he could nest ifs in C - he spent 40 minutes trying to figure out how could he do
if (con1) {
} else {
if (con2){
} else {
}
}
And he's not the only one of the people I know (and I'm fairly antisocial to boot) in that situation - he was possibly the worst case but still... 
* CALL APOGEE, SAY AARDWOLF
* GCS d--- s-/++ a- C++++ U+++ P- L- E-- W++ N++ o+ K- w+++ O? M-- V? PS+ PE- Y+ PGP t++ 5? X R++ tv-- b+ DI+++ D++ G e++>+++ h--- ++>+++ y+++* Weapons extension: ma- k++ F+2 X
* Never pay more than 20 bucks for a computer game.
* I'm a puny punmaker.
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OK, didnt know assembler was used that much still, I thought most embedded had gone to C these days.
And talking of code horrors, I remember VB programmer who used a global variable for various purposes. He actually commented this as 'very efficient programming' in the code. It was, needless to say, very confusing to read since its name reflected only one of its uses.
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FROM MY PHYSICS TEACHER
A pirate captain has a stomach of a perfect sphere of r = 23 cm.
He also has a mug of a shape of frustum cone of r = 7 cm, R = 12 cm and h = 32 cm.
Each evening the captain drinks 3 full mugs and a half (half in height not in volume).
How old the captain?
Skipper: We'll fix it.
Alex: Fix it? How you gonna fix this?
Skipper: Grit, spit and a whole lotta duct tape.
modified 16-Mar-17 18:01pm.
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42. And his name is Roger.
Bad command or file name. Bad, bad command! Sit! Stay! Staaaay...
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And the whale he spent his life chasing is now a bowl of petunias on his desk.
I wanna be a eunuchs developer! Pass me a bread knife!
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Only if he knows where his towel is!
You've seen this puzzle before, I take it?
If a hen and a half can lay an egg and a half in a day and a half, how long would it take a one-legged monkey to kick the seeds out of a dill pickle?
Bad command or file name. Bad, bad command! Sit! Stay! Staaaay...
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It all depends on how wide the road is.
I wanna be a eunuchs developer! Pass me a bread knife!
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And shouldn't it be a monkey with a wooden leg?
(The memory chips in my brain do occasionally spit out memories)
I wanna be a eunuchs developer! Pass me a bread knife!
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He lost it in a small fire.
Bad command or file name. Bad, bad command! Sit! Stay! Staaaay...
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Kornfeld Eliyahu Peter wrote: a perfect shape of r = 23 cm.
But a perfect cylinder also needs a height.
I wanna be a eunuchs developer! Pass me a bread knife!
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Typo (sort of)... shape => sphere... 
Skipper: We'll fix it.
Alex: Fix it? How you gonna fix this?
Skipper: Grit, spit and a whole lotta duct tape.
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Ah, but a pluperfect cylinder would also need a height.
I wanna be a eunuchs developer! Pass me a bread knife!
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Kornfeld Eliyahu Peter wrote: Each evening the captain drinks 3 full mugs and a half
Of what?
If milk, then under 18.
If run, then 18 or older.
Disclaimer: depending on nationality, this might be younger. Given that he's a pirate, laws are probably ignored.
Marc
Latest Article - Merkle Trees
Learning to code with python is like learning to swim with those little arm floaties. It gives you undeserved confidence and will eventually drown you. - DangerBunny
Artificial intelligence is the only remedy for natural stupidity. - CDP1802
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Do spheres have stomaches?
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ok in continuation to my previous post - previous post[^]
In counter offer, they have offered almost same package but along with development, IT management role as well (Tech Manager). So I need to take care of development bit (which is mostly outsourced but there might be new development projects), Filemaker and IT (server etc side). Now my role has always been into programming and this IT management is a new area.
If I leave, I will have to payback the 50% MBA fee that my current company sponsored. If I stay, I need to learn all this IT stuff. I am confused now. If I leave, I will be on trial for 3 months and the role is completely programming based.
Which role do you think has got more prospects in future? My ultimate goal is to move to management.
Thanks for all your suggestions.
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How happy you are at the current company, the workload differences between the jobs, ability to take risks (the 3mo trial), etc I have zero clue about and that stuff makes a huge impact on these kinds of decisions. That being said, if all else is relatively equal I'd go for the position which is more suited to my long-term goals. Might as well start moving up the ladder asap 
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It is hard to advise from the outside, but if you are well with the company, and if you are well with the persons, and if you really prefer the management (and don't go there only for the money), than stay... You have a better chance to climb in the next few years if you already have a half-time management job in a company you know (and the company knows you)...
Skipper: We'll fix it.
Alex: Fix it? How you gonna fix this?
Skipper: Grit, spit and a whole lotta duct tape.
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role is completely programming based
ultimate goal is to move to management
Well it's kinda obvious.
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For whom?
* CALL APOGEE, SAY AARDWOLF
* GCS d--- s-/++ a- C++++ U+++ P- L- E-- W++ N++ o+ K- w+++ O? M-- V? PS+ PE- Y+ PGP t++ 5? X R++ tv-- b+ DI+++ D++ G e++>+++ h--- ++>+++ y+++* Weapons extension: ma- k++ F+2 X
* Never pay more than 20 bucks for a computer game.
* I'm a puny punmaker.
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You're screwed, if you can't evaluate the prospects of the 2 offers and make a decision without referring to the hive mind then you will not make it in management (not as an effective manager at least).
Take the job that has the most programming content.
Caveat - this advice is from someone who has been dodging management positions for over 20 years!
Never underestimate the power of human stupidity
RAH
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I don't know, in my experience the best managers are those that indeed do seek advice.
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Seeking advice is one thing faffing about for and extended period of time is not a good sign. He got some excellent advice from his first post but still can't make a decision.
Never underestimate the power of human stupidity
RAH
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Point taken.
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