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Rage wrote: a device that costs about 4x more than its equivalent in the PC world
Not where I live. In the US there might be a 10-15% premium for Mac's versus Dell/HP/Lenovo when comparing "equivalent" products. That's a premium I'm willing to pay for the benefits I see.
Contrary to popular belief, nobody owes you anything.
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Mike Mullikin wrote: it helps to at least have an open mind when using something new
 Exactamundo!
How do you know so much about swallows? Well, you have to know these things when you're a king, you know.
modified 31-Aug-21 21:01pm.
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Does this explain why most Apple enthusiasts are apparently so open minded that their brains fall out?
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So what's the alternative? Sticking in one camp or the other, trolling "competing" forums, like Android vs iOS, PC vs Mac, C# vs Java? Does any of that behaviour actually make any sense?
Perhaps as professional software developers, we should embrace new technologies and enjoy using new bits of kit or different ways of doing things.. look into them, work our their pros and cons and determine if we can make things better?
Just a though 
How do you know so much about swallows? Well, you have to know these things when you're a king, you know.
modified 31-Aug-21 21:01pm.
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I've got nothing against using new stuff if it is genuinely new; in other words demonstrates actual progress and improvement on what has gone before. What I don't respect is the washing powder approach that so many tech companies, and Apple especially in my judgment, adopt of splashing a new label on a barely tweaked product and announcing it as a monumental breakthrough which is then snapped up by the fanboys like it was the final revelation of the actual date of the Second Coming! It's a second screen for your phone, you deluded fools, I want to scream as I turn over the tables in the Temple Apple Store!
No, I'm not going to waste time on the forums you mentioned, but I'm also not going to be completely mute as Acme Incs Various dumb down the tech market yet further and turn customers into dogs with the attention span of ... SQUIRREL!
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Dogs with the attention span of squirrels? Seriously, I've got no idea what you're on about 
How do you know so much about swallows? Well, you have to know these things when you're a king, you know.
modified 31-Aug-21 21:01pm.
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Mike Mullikin wrote: Nobody is claiming that Apple is perfect but it helps to at least have an open mind when using something new.
Nonsense, it just sucks 
To alcohol! The cause of, and solution to, all of life's problems - Homer Simpson
Our heads are round so our thoughts can change direction - Francis Picabia
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A couple of tips..
- Renaming - just press enter on the file or folder you want to rename.
- Cut - If you open finder, then either do CMD-T or CMD-N (that'll bring up another tab or window) you can drag your file/folder from one place to another)
- Navigation - if you show the status bar on the bottom of the finder window (it's a setting you can access from the UI) it'll show you the full path. You can go up a level in the hierarchy by holding CMD and pressing the up arrow key.
I'm a .NET developer (since 2005 - C, C++ and many others before that) and it really feels like a major step backwards using a Windows 8.1 machine these days. Visual Studio is great but it's now the only application I use that I need a PC for.
I don't know if you use an iPad and/or iPhone but along with the Mac? They works extremely well together. After just over 2 years of using a Mac, my Mac is the device of choice for me for everyday use.
I used to whine on about Apple devices years ago, but now accept I was wrong. Give it time, put the effort in to get to know the machine and you'll end up loving it, I'm sure
How do you know so much about swallows? Well, you have to know these things when you're a king, you know.
modified 31-Aug-21 21:01pm.
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Cheer for this - I'm in the weird position of liking keyboard shortcuts, but resenting the fact that I'm being forced to at the moment - especially given the how Mac OSs are pitched on usability. Time will tell if I come round to it all a bit further.
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Back on the Mac now.. just checked the navigation path bar bit, it's enabled when in Finder from View -> Show Path Bar 
I think the change from Windows to OS X can be jarring, especially around the keyboard shortcuts. There are a lot of them (I'm still finding out about new ones every few weeks) but the good news is that a lot of them work consistently across most applications. You can still do everything with the mouse, but once you've picked up a few shortcuts things really start to fly.
Personally, I really love the MacBook's trackpad - the gestures work brilliantly for me, really making things quick when I've got apps open on multiple desktops. I can't help thinking why hasn't Microsoft added multiple desktops to Windows - OS X and Linux have had them for ages and it seems more sensible than trying to fit a dozen windows onto a single screen?
How do you know so much about swallows? Well, you have to know these things when you're a king, you know.
modified 31-Aug-21 21:01pm.
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How do u know someone is using a Mac?
Answer: He tells you!
Keith Barrow wrote: Nobody, in the whole world, will need more than 2 USB ports.
GDIAF... i'm using 5 ...
if(this.signature != "")
{
MessageBox.Show("This is my signature: " + Environment.NewLine + signature);
}
else
{
MessageBox.Show("404-Signature not found");
}
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 I GDIAF then 
if(this.signature != "")
{
MessageBox.Show("This is my signature: " + Environment.NewLine + signature);
}
else
{
MessageBox.Show("404-Signature not found");
}
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You actually made laugh out loud. 
To alcohol! The cause of, and solution to, all of life's problems - Homer Simpson
Our heads are round so our thoughts can change direction - Francis Picabia
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It is nice, until you start doing something serious with it. It gets job done when the job is simple. But when you start using it for serious work, it really gets in your way. And like all the other Apple products it will make you feel stupid / frustrated with simple tasks even if you are a pro.
Yes, the Finder is a bad design. I still remember googling for 'How to rename a file in Mac' (there is no option in Edit menu also  ), 'How to do a slideshow in Mac', 'How to open a file using Keyboard in Mac' and few other embarrassing searches, and it was really simple but not-intuitive (take that Apple) like press Enter (rename), press Space-bar (slideshow) and press Ctrl + Down Arrow (open).
It took me few days to get over the lack of Backspace key, specially when I was coding. And it still annoy me that Mac can read, but can't write to my external HDDs, because they are formatted with NTFS. When you backup/import your Music/Photos with iTunes/iPhoto, you can't find it on the HDD anywhere.
Also be gentle/careful with the power adapter, the cable 'will' break (near the power pin) and it will cost you an arm (take a look at its reviews on Apple Store). And be ready for GBs and GBs of updates every few days. Apps will get updated for the latest version of a Mac OS, even if you are using an older version. The Mac App-Store's prices will make you laugh, > $100.00 for Apps that does so much little.
So most of the negatives are due to the awful Mac OS and not because of Mac (They know hardware but don't know software, opposite of Microsoft), if you install Windows on it. It will be very useful. 
On the positive side: I really like the portability, track-pad, keyboard feel, display, long battery life, overall built-quality and other people's oh wow expressions (which, I will never understand why).
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Rutvik Dave wrote: It is nice, until you start doing something serious with it. It gets job done when the job is simple. But when you start using it for serious work, it really gets in your way. And like all the other Apple products it will make you feel stupid / frustrated with simple tasks even if you are a pro.
Can you give a few examples of the "serious" work that you do so easily on a Windows PC that is so difficult on a Mac? This is an honest question. I've seen a few others make the same general claim and I'll be damned if I can't think of any work I do in Windows that isn't similarly easy or hard on my Mac. Makes me wonder what others are doing that I'm not.
Contrary to popular belief, nobody owes you anything.
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Mike Mullikin wrote: Can you give a few examples of the "serious" work that you do so easily on a Windows PC that is so difficult on a Mac?
Off the top of my head, "Doom" and "Quake" come to mind. 
The United States invariably does the right thing, after having exhausted every other alternative. -Winston Churchill
America is the only country that went from barbarism to decadence without civilization in between. -Oscar Wilde
Wow, even the French showed a little more spine than that before they got their sh*t pushed in.[^] -Colin Mullikin
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- Mac will not work properly on a network,
- It doesn't work when I enable user quota and permission on my NAS,
- It can't write to my friend's external HDD (because most of them are formatted with NTFS partitions, it can read but not write),
- It can't read from my smartphone that is connected using USB (no usb mass storage mode),
- sometimes it will not connect to my mobile hotspot (this happened many times on my client demo).
- Can't connect projector. not even my PICO projector with USB port.
- Many times it will not find the printer on a network.
- Desktop window management sucks, you need to do some stupid gestures to find that Copy Files Progress window.
- Crazy amount of terminal commands required to setup a development environment.
- And the amount of internet bandwidth it consumes is insane.
- Many apps will not have a proper installation process so when you drag it to your Application, it will ask you if you want to run this unknown app even when you have enabled to run unknown apps it in the settings.
- My usb headphones doesn't work on a Mac. It doesn't have a microphone jack so my other headphones also doesn't work.
I am not saying there is no fix for all of the above, and I am not even looking for answers. What I am trying to say is when I try to use Mac in my office it gets in my way (Mostly due to design choices Apple made on behalf of you). It makes my system admin feel stupid even they are very good at windows and linux.
It works great at my home for surfing and watching movies.
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Wow! Sounds like you've had your hands full. That's a shame. I won't waste any of our time trying to address these individually. Suffice it to say that I've not experienced very many of these issues - despite doing the vast majority of them.
In fact, the only one that stands out is "not writing to NTFS partitions". I understand there are licensing issues between Microsoft and everyone else (Apple included) that prevent Apple from officially offering full support for NTFS. Luckily those same issues do not apply to ExFAT[^] partitions (also developed by Microsoft). I format all my external drives with ExFAT specifically so they can operate with both Windows and OS X. Too bad the drive manufacturers don't do the same.
Contrary to popular belief, nobody owes you anything.
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Keith Barrow wrote: who moved my cheese?
I went through that back in 1998 when I switched from OS 7.5.5 (on a Powermac 6100) to Win98. I haven't looked back since! I do remember 'Finder' from those days as it tended to crash often. Great times!
"Go forth into the source" - Neal Morse
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I went through that pain about two years ago, though I used the mac only part time (for an intended port--the entire project got canceled before I had to do serious work.)
My view of Apple is that as long as you do things the way they want you to do them, everything is fine. Deviate from that and your life gets difficult.
One thing I never got over (of many) was how the UI seemed to be three UIs cobbled into one and one was still using thirty year old font. I never did adjust to how some options in xcode were in the xcode menu and some were on the global menu (whatever it's called.) and some weren't on any menu at all (the silly amount of keyboard shortcuts issue, which wouldn't have been so bad had the key combinations made logical sense.)
Then there's the joy of windows popping up in the background with no indication anywhere that a window popped up in the background.
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Few more tips:
- cmd-ctrl-shift-4 will place the selected screen area into clipboard, not a desktop file.
- I often go to Preview and press cmd-n to create new file from clipboard.
- cmd-shift-3 and cmd-ctrl-shift-3 will do the same as their -4 counterparts, but for fullscreen
Btw. you have apparently some strange keyboard, I never seen a mac with # key in any other place but shift-3 
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I've been using Mac for ages - I love OSX, but would agree that the "It just works" thing isn't always the case. There are some pretty strange/non-obvious things which you need to do on the Mac.
To change the filename in finder: select the file to change, and then press 'Enter'. Quick to use when you know it's there, but intuitive? Hell no.
And don't get me started on the hundreds of hidden characters - on my (Finnish) keyboard, the {} | $ and many more are all hidden behind the alt key, and not marked on the keyboard at all. You get used to it after maybe 5 years, and it's always fun to alt through all the keyboard characters to see what's there. •Ω鮆µıœπ
About a year ago, Apple started taunting us with the mysteriously moving taskbar on dual-monitor machines. No word of warning, it just suddenly started moving between screens - took a few weeks to figure out the mouse moves for it. Thanks, Apple.
I would really really love it if I could cmd+tab to a specific application window rather than just an application - something you can do in Windows and Linux but not Mac. Although you can keyboard through all the terminal windows, which is nice. (Cmd + arrow keys, only works on Terminal).
And I really hate the 'natural scrolling crap' which they forced on us - like 99% of Mac users, I switch it off first thing.
Love my , but not blind to the strange/questionable OSX design decisions.
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SpoonLord wrote:
I would really really love it if I could cmd+tab to a specific application window rather than just an application - something you can do in Windows and Linux but not Mac. Although you can keyboard through all the terminal windows, which is nice. (Cmd + arrow keys, only works on Terminal).
Cmd-~ cycles through windows within the current application - I'd been using OSX for years before I know this one. The thing that I really don't like is that Neither Cmd-<tab> nor Cmd-~ will visit a minimized window - you to do some dance with cmd-tabbing to the app and down arrow while still holding down Cmd to find a minimized window.
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> I would really really love it if I could cmd+tab to a specific application
> window rather than just an application - something you can do in Windows
> and Linux but not Mac.
I love this feature on the Mac. CMD+TAB cycles you through the Applications CMD+~ cycles you through the Windows of *that* application (unless you are already cycling through applications and then it cycles backwards.)
Did I mention that track-pad actually works? On Windows(or Linux) I have yet to have a track-pad that actually works. I always end up selecting/moving/deleting stuff while I am typing on Windows and Linux. I never have that problem on the Mac.
And if you really can't stand OS-X buy a Macbook anyway and run windows on it. It's a better Windows laptop than most (all?) Windows laptops. I mean it was declared the "Best Performing" Windows laptop in 2013.
There are some things I missed when moving over but I have forgotten what they are.
Wayne J.
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