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Irina Pykhova wrote: I doubt that you can uninstall Norton antivirus from Control Panel at all
..which classifies it as unwanted. Anything the local admin cannot remove and that gets updated from the outside is a huge security risk.
Also does not add that much extra security; most virii would not go over the control panel to cripple a scanner. If the removal tool can remove it, then why not make it an (control panel) applet and have it there for everyone who has the access-right to it?
Bastard Programmer from Hell 
If you can't read my code, try converting it here[^]
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)) again, what is local admin in your understanding? Sounds like a person who only allows remote updates for viruses. I don't have any admins and I can remove it, while I understand that it might be complicated to remove from simple uninstaller as it includes drivers. Antivirus software must update virus definitions without any admins. If it doesn't do so, viruses won't ask you whether your admin allows them to update. So many people get salary for administration and don't understand what they really should do
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Trouble is that the original Norton Utilities were really, really good: useful tools that actually worked.
Then the accountants took over and Money became the first, last and only important factor. The product quality could go hang and if trying to get the damn thing off a machine was difficult (if not near impossible) then the chances are that most people will give up trying and fork over the cash on a regular basis. I think that's why you nearly always get a free year of the stupid thing preinstalled with a new PC.
Those who fail to learn history are doomed to repeat it. --- George Santayana (December 16, 1863 – September 26, 1952)
Those who fail to clear history are doomed to explain it. --- OriginalGriff (February 24, 1959 – ∞)
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I too remember when Norton Tools worked. Did what it said on the box; as they say. Now they - along with McAfee, Symantecs, et al - seem to be more interested in gaining revenue by looking in the user - as you said - then by trying to be innovative. I know it's on a par with innovations in plumbing but people will be pleased to pay for an effective product.
I think M$ have, for once, got it right on this subject.
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I agree. I posted some issue on their forums. Looks like they don't have enough resources to test everything on different systems. Or they just go MS way - sell it first and then fix issues if you can.
But do you know companies whose products are perfect in all things? I suppose any antivirus will have something of this kind
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Irina Pykhova wrote: do you know companies whose products are perfect in all things?
Mine.
OK, OK, that's a lie. (Actually a huge lie, but who's counting?)
Trouble is, I've never seen a single system - even one which has only the preinstalled software - that can comfortably work with and / or remove NAV. And if they can't get that right when they have (in theory) full knowledge of the hardware and software it makes me think that it is not accidental but a deliberate "feature" designed to keep the software on the machine and hopefully rake in some money.
Which in my mind is virus activity! 
Those who fail to learn history are doomed to repeat it. --- George Santayana (December 16, 1863 – September 26, 1952)
Those who fail to clear history are doomed to explain it. --- OriginalGriff (February 24, 1959 – ∞)
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have you heard that Windows must die? Or what the hell happened to Internet Explorer on x64 machines? The world is not perfect.
About "even preinstalled" - IMHO, it's the source of problem. I don't remember preinstalled things which bothered about updates or whether they have been properly installed. You've got something a bit old with a bit old antivirus and a bit old drivers and a bunch of trial apps which you never wanted, who knows how it supposed to work.
I usually remove the most of preinstalled stuff first and then make it my way. And after that even Symantec works 
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About a dozen years ago, I got Norton Anti-Virus free with some tax software and installed it. I believe it was on a Windows 2000, though it may have been right when XP came out. It caused all sorts of problems, so I uninstalled it. It rendered my Windows almost unusable. I could get online and do nothing else, including seeing the file system (or starting a console) or I could open a console (I seriously could not do both at the same time.) I rescued what could be rescued and then reinstalled Windows without Norton.
Oddly enough, I've used Symantec Enterprise since then at several jobs and never had a problem with it.
(At one point, I tried McAfee. It didn't cause any performance problems, but didn't catch a virus one of my kids "downloaded" from a legitimate teen site.)
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When bored I entertain myself by going to the Funan Centre[^], ordering a desktop and after all the paperwork is done I ask what bloatware is installed, when they refuse to remove the crap I can cancel the order and walk out in a huff. When I actually need a desktop I go to a small operator who has a bunch of tools for bloatware removal - great people.
Never underestimate the power of human stupidity
RAH
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Nothing like a good slipstream, too... that's what I use for setting up work PCs now.
The only gotcha is making sure it has networking drivers.
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Mycroft Holmes wrote: When bored I entertain myself by going to the Funan Centre[^], ordering a desktop and after all the paperwork is done I ask what bloatware is installed, when they refuse to remove the crap I can cancel the order and walk out in a huff. When I actually need a desktop I go to a small operator who has a bunch of tools for bloatware removal - great people.
You are a right prick, aren't you.
I reckon I went to the Funan Centre in late 1999 or early 2000. By Christ I walked away with a very large collection of software at the time.
Michael Martin
Australia
"I controlled my laughter and simple said "No,I am very busy,so I can't write any code for you". The moment they heard this all the smiling face turned into a sad looking face and one of them farted. So I had to leave the place as soon as possible."
- Mr.Prakash One Fine Saturday. 24/04/2004
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Michael Martin wrote: You are a right prick, aren't you
True, there is no value in growing old gracefully.
Around 2000 stuff from Funan could be considered value, not any more, they shut down the pirates and it is nearly all big operators in small shops. There are a couple with 4-5 outlets in the building, weird way of setting up.
Never underestimate the power of human stupidity
RAH
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Hi ... I am new to a software company after my b.tec....
Can i any help me to know how to be a good developer ??
I am using .net framework now ...!! 
can anyone tell me about the latest technology in it ?? and how can i improve my Career in software developing ?
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0. Learn
1. Learn
2. Never forget point # 0 & 1
3. When in doubt, refer to point # 2
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I think he is not aware about if,for,while,for each...
"When you don't know what you're doing it's best to do it quickly"- SoMad
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Practice.
Forget "latest technology" for a while, and concentrate on getting experience in the basics of what you are employed to do. A university education does not teach you how to code in the real world: so take the time to learn and get experience. Then when you are ready start looking at other technologies, but get some firm groundwork under you first - a year or so at least, and listen when people who have been doing it for year talk.
Let's face it: in a year or so all the "latest technologies" will have been supplanted by the new "latest thing" anyway!
Those who fail to learn history are doomed to repeat it. --- George Santayana (December 16, 1863 – September 26, 1952)
Those who fail to clear history are doomed to explain it. --- OriginalGriff (February 24, 1959 – ∞)
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OriginalGriff wrote: university education does not teach you how to code
You should tell me this 20 years before!
I'm not questioning your powers of observation; I'm merely remarking upon the paradox of asking a masked man who he is. (V)
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I can tell you that the only reason I got that university education is that I found I needed the piece of paper to get my foot in the door. What got me the job was what I had learned in spite of the university.
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Makes lots of mistakes...to learn what does not work!
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Those who fail to learn history are doomed to repeat it. --- George Santayana (December 16, 1863 – September 26, 1952)
Those who fail to clear history are doomed to explain it. --- OriginalGriff (February 24, 1959 – ∞)
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As we all learnt from watching Karate Kid, it's a simple case of Wax On / Wax Off. Everything you do [think of it as Ying] has an effect [the Yang] that is rarely what we want [Tong Tiddlie I Poe].
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Nagy Vilmos wrote: Wax Off.
Fnarrr fnarr.
Alberto Brandolini: The amount of energy necessary to refute bullshit is an order of magnitude bigger than to produce it.
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Sidharth R wrote: Can i any help me to know how to be a good developer ?
By using fewer smileys and less punctuation, you may not improve your development skills, but you will appear to others to be less of a 14 year-old and possibly be taken more seriously.
Sidharth R wrote: can anyone tell me about the latest technology in it
Microsoft can ... head over to Microsoft[^] and read.
Sidharth R wrote: how can i improve my Career in software developing
Ask questions. specific ones. If you are working somewhere where you do code reviews, listen to advice, and try to understand why changes are being made. If not, learn from other people's code. If you don't understand it, ask. don't be embarrassed if you don't know something, or aren't sure of the best way to do something. Most developers will be pleased to offer their advice (but try to make sure you're asking the right sort of developer!)
PooperPig - Coming Soon
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_Maxxx_ wrote: try to make sure you're asking the right sort of developer!
And therein lies the problem: You don't generally know which sort you are asking until it's too late!
Those who fail to learn history are doomed to repeat it. --- George Santayana (December 16, 1863 – September 26, 1952)
Those who fail to clear history are doomed to explain it. --- OriginalGriff (February 24, 1959 – ∞)
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