|
Ennis Ray Lynch, Jr. wrote: WPF sucks, Start with Win Forms to learn the fundamentals of saving and retrieving data so you are comfortable before you move to WPF and do everything Bass Ackwards.
You can't be serious!!
I did WinForms for 25 years, and WPF for the last 5, and I will NEVER again touch WinForms. It's archaic, outdated, and everything you want to do is a PITA compared to WPF.
WPF is hands down a much better tool than WinForms. I design UI's now that I could only dream about back then.
As far as "learning the fundamentals" - fundamentals of what? Programming? You don't need WinForms or WPF for that.
"before you move to WPF and do everything Bass Ackwards." - What in WPF is backwards??
If it's not broken, fix it until it is
|
|
|
|
|
When I say learning the fundamentals, there are a lot of "user interaction" type items that are far more simple in Windows Forms. It is the simplicity of the tool that I like. WPF adds, complexity, which for certain individuals on certain mindsets may be great. But for a user that designed a system in Access I would never recommend WPF as the next step.
|
|
|
|
|
So you would recommend he step back instead of forward? Learn an outdated tool that is no longer mainstream and he wouldn't find a job in instead of a modern more capable tool that is widely used?
There is zero logic in this.
If it's not broken, fix it until it is
|
|
|
|
|
I like WPF - it definitely seemed like a step forward - but there is a question mark over its future that a lot of developers (myself included) feel uneasy about.
It's summed up by Peter Bright in his article at over at Arstechnica:
"The situation for developers using the WPF graphical framework was similar. There have been rumors that it has been cancelled and the team that worked on it disbanded, but there was never any positive confirmation from Microsoft and little or no light shed on the framework's future, if it even had one. Again, developers made the investment in WPF, and they were left in the lurch. The same is true for developers using the XNA game framework (which, unlike WPF, has been killed off) and arguably even .NET as a whole."
modified 31-Aug-21 21:01pm.
|
|
|
|
|
Oxford and Cambridge say "Aye!" 
|
|
|
|
|
Good to know the British agree.
Perhaps when they sober up they will tell us what they agree with? 
|
|
|
|
|
Once upon a time, there wsa a strike. A miner's strike. The leader was Arthur Scargill. He lost.
A few years later, a comedy troupe made a film called 'Strike!', which was all about a fictional attempt by Hollywood to make a film about the strike.
Arthur would be played by 'Al Pacino' who would insist on turning Scargill into a victorious hero.
When Scargill rides a motorbike to parliament in a last ditch attempt for peace, he makes a 'common man' speach to the members. They all say 'Aye!' in American accents, except for the member for 'Oxford and Cambridge'(!) who has a plummy English accent as this might actually be English.
It was a funny film. Look it up on You Tube. 
|
|
|
|
|
The initial learning curve for WPF is pretty steep but having a book should give you a jump-start.
After that, it's all fun and games
|
|
|
|
|
I have the same book from 2007. (3.0) I only got through the second chapter before losing interest. One of these days I do intend to try it again. At least now MS includes the designer with VS. Good luck!
There's nothing wrong with using Access for small and simple applications particularly for single-user apps...unless you already have SQL Server installed that is. 
"Go forth into the source" - Neal Morse
|
|
|
|
|
kmoorevs wrote: There's nothing wrong with using Access for small and simple applications
Indeed - it is quite a powerful tool, although it is far too easy to produce VBA spaghetti code and the lack of certain controls as standard (like a List View) is a bit annoying.
Going from coding up an Access Form to developing a little App in C# was just a world of difference, C# allows you to be so neat and concise!
"Benjamin is nobody's friend. If Benjamin were an ice cream flavor, he'd be pralines and dick." ~ Garth Algar
"If you think it's expensive to hire a professional to do the job, wait until you hire an amateur." ~ Paul Neal "Red" Adair
|
|
|
|
|
1.21 Gigawatts wrote: So, I've just bought "WPF 4.5 Unleashed" by Adam Nathan,
Waste of money , as I think there are some really excellent series here on CP regarding WPF. Not saying the book is bad or anything.
1.21 Gigawatts wrote: WPF 4.5 Unleashed
I'd put it back on the leash, get out the shotgun and kill it. 
Marc
|
|
|
|
|
Ahh!! Don;t say that!
The book got recommendations from our own Sacha Baber and Pete O'Hanlon - so I thought it must be a good start!!
(But I will venture into CP articles I'm sure when something doesn't quite gel in me noggin!!
"Benjamin is nobody's friend. If Benjamin were an ice cream flavor, he'd be pralines and dick." ~ Garth Algar
"If you think it's expensive to hire a professional to do the job, wait until you hire an amateur." ~ Paul Neal "Red" Adair
|
|
|
|
|
1.21 Gigawatts wrote: The book got recommendations from our own Sacha Baber and Pete O'Hanlon
Like I said, I wasn't diss'ing the book at all. Just poking at you.
Marc
|
|
|
|
|
I know I know!
The articles on Code Project have always helped and amazed me over the years - so many talented and dedicated people!
"Benjamin is nobody's friend. If Benjamin were an ice cream flavor, he'd be pralines and dick." ~ Garth Algar
"If you think it's expensive to hire a professional to do the job, wait until you hire an amateur." ~ Paul Neal "Red" Adair
|
|
|
|
|
|
Ohh yes, I intend to use Sacha's articles as well!
Thanks!
"Benjamin is nobody's friend. If Benjamin were an ice cream flavor, he'd be pralines and dick." ~ Garth Algar
"If you think it's expensive to hire a professional to do the job, wait until you hire an amateur." ~ Paul Neal "Red" Adair
|
|
|
|
|
Hey Gigs...
Start here: WPF/MVVM Quick Start Tutorial[^]
I have done both Winforms and WPF and I have to say I like having a WPF codebase to maintain much more than a Winforms codebase to maintain.
Databinding in WPF is a stellar experience. I've done one commercial product with it and it's a snap to maintain.
WPF is very different though.
If you haven't done a lot of winforms, you might be in better shape, not having your mind ruined by taking all the shortcuts winform so graciously allows....
I like this article by Lapthorn very much, because he's very deliberate about skipping the whiz-bang "unleashy" stuff and concentrating on what basics you need to know.
Recommend you work through each example to see the evolution from wrong to right.... I did. Very informative hands on format.
WPF is a paradigm shift from winforms for sure.
The Hardest part for me was NOT looking for winforms equivilants in wpf.
("But it works like this in winforms waaah..." Just stop it already.)
|
|
|
|
|
Ok, nice one!
thanks I will look through it.
I'm mentally preparing myself to just forget everything I used to know, treat it as a brand new technology which is nothing like Winforms....
We will see how it goes!
"Benjamin is nobody's friend. If Benjamin were an ice cream flavor, he'd be pralines and dick." ~ Garth Algar
"If you think it's expensive to hire a professional to do the job, wait until you hire an amateur." ~ Paul Neal "Red" Adair
|
|
|
|
|
I've made myself learn/use WPF the last few months; just 'cause. The only gripe I have so far is that the data grid view control is waaay more clunky than that found in Win Forms.
|
|
|
|
|
WPF is the front-end, the GUI. You don't have to have it to work with your access database. If you want to learn it, that's one thing, but you're talking apples & oranges here. Your back end code (the Access stuff) doesn't care if you use WinForms or WPF.
|
|
|
|
|
Yes, thanks, I'm aware of that - its just an idea at the moment; a goal to focus on.
"Benjamin is nobody's friend. If Benjamin were an ice cream flavor, he'd be pralines and dick." ~ Garth Algar
"If you think it's expensive to hire a professional to do the job, wait until you hire an amateur." ~ Paul Neal "Red" Adair
|
|
|
|
|
I spent a little time a few years ago playing with WPF and found it to be a real overkill for the types of stuff I write. I'm not so much into making pretty pictures as just presenting data which WinForms is fine for; it's consistent, mature and just plain works.
|
|
|
|
|
Yeah - it does appear to be fairly large in scope!
But, I can nob about with Winforms and I just thought that I should really start getting to grips with it - just for the fun of it.
Winforms won;t be going away any time soon, but (at the moment at least) WPf is the future 
"Benjamin is nobody's friend. If Benjamin were an ice cream flavor, he'd be pralines and dick." ~ Garth Algar
"If you think it's expensive to hire a professional to do the job, wait until you hire an amateur." ~ Paul Neal "Red" Adair
|
|
|
|
|
The thing I didn't care about with WPF was having to constantly deal with XAML, which is fine I guess but if I wanted to deal with an HTML type language I'd just write a web application. I just felt that doing that on the desktop when I had gotten used to a GUI designer was just too much work for what I was trying to accomplish. With WinForms most of my time is focused on the application itself (making things work, etc.) whereas with WPF I felt like I was spending an inordinate amount of time trying to get the GUI right. I mean, how many methods must I ingest into my head for presenting a grid of data, or a list of items to choose, etc?
I'm not at-all against these technologies per-se you might just say I've finally settled down and decided to be an expert at a few with which I can solve business problems instead of constantly trying to keep up with all these different technologies. I've been at this 38 years and as far as the type of stuff I develop I can't tell you that all the presentation technologies they've come up with since WinForms would enhance my presentations in any meaningful way. Heck ... I could have completed my last project as a character-based DOS application and it would have served the needs of my client very well!
Like you said, WinForms ain't going anywhere. The output generated by VS2008 (my preferred tool) runs on everything from Windows XP right on up to Windows 8.1 desktop. That's a pretty huge audience. I think I'll just focus on solving these business problems with technology I already have and leave off chasing the "latest" stuff all the time. I suspect I'll have enough work to do without having constantly to upgrade and spin my wheels.
|
|
|
|
|
Haha, yeah - I can image in 38 years you've seen quite a few new technologies come in and go out!
Winforms is brilliant, I've got VS 2008 which is excellent, and I'm using VS 2013 Express for this WPF learning.
The Winforms designer is superb - really feels like a polished bit of kit.
I'm just starting with WPF, and the designer already doesn't feel as polished, but, I'm still learning, so I'll get better (with any luck!)
Anyway, thanks for you input - I always like hearing opinions of more experienced people; always something to learn
"Benjamin is nobody's friend. If Benjamin were an ice cream flavor, he'd be pralines and dick." ~ Garth Algar
"If you think it's expensive to hire a professional to do the job, wait until you hire an amateur." ~ Paul Neal "Red" Adair
|
|
|
|
General 
News 
Suggestion 
Question 
Bug 
Answer 
Joke 
Praise 
Rant 
Admin 
Submit an article or tip
