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Background
My son's fiancee is looking for a job and submitted a cover letter & resume to BigCo.
BigCo responded with:
Please contact 5 references (at least 3 of them must be managers) and have them take this survey about your work.
Survey has numerous detailed questions.
Her best references are the current place she works but of course she can't use those without letting the cat out of the bag.
My Background
I've worked at current place 13 years. (I've worked in IT 30 years.)
If I had to provide 3 manager references they would be from companies where the people wouldn't even remember me.
Additionally
Managers tend to be stooges & the reason I have left companies, soo.... 
The Poll
Would you be able to provide 3 Managers from your past that you could be confident would give you good responses?
The Point
I think the request by BigCo. is ridiculous & I'm wondering if it seems _normal_ to others.
Thanks
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No. Most previous employers will do nothing more than confirm employment dates.
No previous employer/manager would take such a survey.
Clearly BigCo wants a "reason" to reject her without seeming to be misogynists.
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PIEBALDconsult wrote: Most previous employers will do nothing more than confirm employment dates.
No previous employer/manager would take such a survey.
That's exactly what I thought & said.
We're in US but I thought it (providing survey-level data) wasn't allowed even here.
Thanks so much for your reply.
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Would probably violate HR regulations at the former employer.
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It's legally allowed in the U.S., but leaves a company open to lawsuit. So it is never allowed by company HR policy.
Bond
Keep all things as simple as possible, but no simpler. -said someone, somewhere
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Check out the disclaimer text that she has to include with any reference she contacts.
This whole process is garbage.
snapshot from the sample she was given...
https://i.stack.imgur.com/pmUvd.png[^]
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raddevus wrote: Would you be able to provide 3 Managers from your past that you could be confident would give you good responses?
No, I would not remember them or have any way to contact them. Even if I did, I would not. People change all the time - for good or for bad. So past impressions could be invalid.
"It is easy to decipher extraterrestrial signals after deciphering Javascript and VB6 themselves.", ISanti[ ^]
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lw@zi wrote: o, I would not remember them or have any way to contact them. Even if I did, I would not. People change all the time - for good or for bad. So past impressions could be invalid.
I feel the same way about it.
Thanks very much for chiming in. The hiring process is so broken. It's amazing people even get hired.
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I've been at the same place for 29+ years, 1 manager, alas I am not qualified. 
"the debugger doesn't tell me anything because this code compiles just fine" - random QA comment
"Facebook is where you tell lies to your friends. Twitter is where you tell the truth to strangers." - chriselst
"I don't drink any more... then again, I don't drink any less." - Mike Mullikins uncle
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Are you talking about your job or your marriage? 
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Damn near both, 21 years married. Hmm, well that's 2 managers, I'm getting closer to the required 3. Wait, my mother-in-law is living with us now, that indeed makes three! Woohoo, BigCo. here I come! 
"the debugger doesn't tell me anything because this code compiles just fine" - random QA comment
"Facebook is where you tell lies to your friends. Twitter is where you tell the truth to strangers." - chriselst
"I don't drink any more... then again, I don't drink any less." - Mike Mullikins uncle
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You could not possibly be more correct!
ed
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That beats me by 7 years! I started here part-time while in my third and final go a getting a degree. The project I was hired in for back in '98 is thriving and still evolving. It's been a good ride! 
"Go forth into the source" - Neal Morse
"Hope is contagious"
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kmoorevs wrote: thriving and still evolving. It's been a good ride!
Exactly, on any given day I might write in C, C++, Assembler (8, 16, & 32 bit), and some C#. Doing PC based stuff and embedded stuff. I've maintained some code for at least 25 years. It keeps you on your toes.
"the debugger doesn't tell me anything because this code compiles just fine" - random QA comment
"Facebook is where you tell lies to your friends. Twitter is where you tell the truth to strangers." - chriselst
"I don't drink any more... then again, I don't drink any less." - Mike Mullikins uncle
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I'm hard to forget, some will probably not be able to even with constant therapy. Actually, it's only my last boss who could need some therapy, which also is why I left there. The others already gave me something like that when I left and they are quite good. That will have to suffice. Running back with anybody's survey ia a joke.
I wonder if that's a sneaky trap. Anyone who can contact 5 former bosses changes his employment more often than some people their underwear. And that's not a good thing at all.
I have lived with several Zen masters - all of them were cats.
His last invention was an evil Lasagna. It didn't kill anyone, and it actually tasted pretty good.
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Thanks for your input. I agree. 
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Do the managers have to be her "direct report" managers or could they be managers of other groups that she may have interfaced with? Maybe managers of customers, vendors, etc...?
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Good question. Based on the survey they are people who do know what she did day-to-day and what she was like in her role. But she has only had 4 jobs in her life anyways (since she is still young) so that makes it difficult also.
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Why would any of those - managers of customers, vendors, etc. - want to complete a detailed survey, even if they felt qualified to "judge" an employee of a different company?
I wouldn't. But then, I don't fill out surveys unless I can see something in it for me: I value my time higher than the survey setters do ... 
"I have no idea what I did, but I'm taking full credit for it." - ThisOldTony
"Common sense is so rare these days, it should be classified as a super power" - Random T-shirt
AntiTwitter: @DalekDave is now a follower!
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OriginalGriff wrote: Why would any of those - managers of customers, vendors, etc. - want to complete a detailed survey
Because they're compassionate human beings?
I've been a reference (ie. spoken to potential employers or recruiters) for several people who did not directly report to me.
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And so have I.
Writing a letter of reference is one thing - and I'm happy to do it for people I know - but a detailed survey? That's just rude - you can bet that their HR department would just throw such a request in the bin.
"I have no idea what I did, but I'm taking full credit for it." - ThisOldTony
"Common sense is so rare these days, it should be classified as a super power" - Random T-shirt
AntiTwitter: @DalekDave is now a follower!
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OriginalGriff wrote: but a detailed survey? That's just rude
We'll have to agree to disagree. A properly designed survey might take less time than writing a reference letter that doesn't sound like a boilerplate.
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fgs1963 wrote: Because they're compassionate human beings?
Did not know these still existed in the work milieu.  
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Good point!
Maybe I've been blessed. In 39 years in the work force (35 at my current employer) I've had a total of 7 managers. 5 were excellent. I'm sure they would have gone out of their way to give a good reference to anyone they felt deserved it. I've been a manager myself (small groups) for nearly 20 years. Having learned from these managers - I do the same.
Based on many of the responses to your OP... I feel very alone.
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Quote: Because they're compassionate human beings?
I have only met 2 "Compassionate Human Beings" in my 72 years. One is my wife of 48+ years(Not just to me she is a Registered Nurse and cares deeply for her patients), and the other was my Mother-in-Law, and she has pasesd away. Neither of them are/were in IT.
I must admit that I, myself am not.
I will admit to being an extreme cynic.
Except for a couple of contracts, I have worked for myself sinve 1977. I could give me a "great Reference"
ed
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