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We recently hired a few new people, and one of them has considerable experience in the main third party product we are using. Over lunch, said person asked me about how the product is integrated in to our other services, and I volunteered to show him my little corner of the world, which consists mainly of writing middleware libraries that take requests from the third party app, packages the request for consumption by various web services and responds with the results and/or errors. In return, Marc got some really good knowledge about the third party product which he has never formally received an overview/training in, even though he's been there for over a year.
His manager, upon noticing the 2 hours we spent together (ironically, which when I was stepping through a project with a known bug that I hadn't worked out resulted in figuring out what the bug was), had this to say to the new hire (it's logged in a chat message, which is good):
"Marc works only 3 days a week so his time is very constrained and he eats that stuff up [refering to "integrations"] so he'll probably never tell you that he's too busy."
Let's make the following assumptions:
Marc is a professional with 30+ years experience and can manage his own time.
Marc was in a lull (of which there are many) and had some free time.
Marc has previously demonstrated his ability to cross departmental silos to the benefit of all teams.
Given said manager's direct message to the new hire, what, if anything should Marc do?
Would you take this just as a failed attempt by the manager at humor?
Would you ignore it, keep your head down, and not do anything like this again, even though the company's "employee conduct" manual expressly has Dilbertesque phrases about team building, communication, etc.
Would you write a complaint?
Other?
Thanks ahead of time, I'm actually really bothered by the manager's comment, so looking for advice.
Latest Article - Code Review - What You Can Learn From a Single Line of Code
Learning to code with python is like learning to swim with those little arm floaties. It gives you undeserved confidence and will eventually drown you. - DangerBunny
Artificial intelligence is the only remedy for natural stupidity. - CDP1802
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Marc Clifton wrote: His manager, upon noticing the 2 hours we spent together
His manager ? what about your manager ?
I would simply shrug it off.
Passing technical information between staff is essential in any company.
Max.
I'd rather be phishing!
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I've had this situation once. I told the manager he was wrong. After that, this manager tried to make my life a nightmare for the year-and-half I kept working for the company (always questionning my skills, passive/aggressive remarks during meetings, etc.).
If I would be placed in the same situation, I would react exactly the same way, though.
And I kept contact with the *new* developper, we're now friends and I consider him as a quite skilled one.
I've been told recently the manager has been fired for lack of managerial competences.
"I'm neither for nor against, on the contrary." John Middle
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Managers exist to be ignored and circumnavigated. Managers come and go while the workhorses are more or less always the same.
I would recommend you to not give a flying, walking, swimming or crawling ![Elephant | [mastadon]](https://codeproject.freetls.fastly.net/script/Forums/Images/elephant.gif) .
GCS d-- s-/++ a- C++++ U+++ P- L+@ E-- W++ N+ o+ K- w+++ O? M-- V? PS+ PE- Y+ PGP t+ 5? X R+++ tv-- b+(+++) DI+++ D++ G e++ h--- ++>+++ y+++* Weapons extension: ma- k++ F+2 X
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Back in real life (i.e, as chemist) I had to have management review a paper before it could be submitted to a journal (and properly peer-reviewed). This was one of my earlier overt developments in managing managers.
They all needed to validate their worthless existence by 'spraying' the journal article (which they couldn't really comprehend) with ridiculous changes. So . . . .
Solution 1: Deliberately make mistakes like 'the the' and other typos as bait to make them feel good about themselves. Later I evolved to . . .
Solution 2: Let them mark up the paper all they liked - then submit the original copy to the journals.
More respect than they deserved.
| Ravings en masse^ |
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| "The difference between genius and stupidity is that genius has its limits." - Albert Einstein | | "If you are searching for perfection in others, then you seek disappointment. If you are seek perfection in yourself, then you will find failure." - Balboos HaGadol Mar 2010 |
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If you do or say anything about this then the first reaction is going to be "How did you know I said that to the new hire?" And that will then become the issue...who is saying what to who, who is showing "private" communications, who is talking behind people's backs and so on, and could even get the new hire in trouble or at least seen badly by his manager.
If it was me I'd just shrug it off as someone having a bad case of the Mondays...
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I would merely ask for clarification of his comments. Is he suggesting that the new guy should not ask your advice (i.e take up your valuable time), or that you should refuse it (i.e. focus on your real work)?
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At this particular time (and the window might be open for a few more months) the easiest way seems to be creating own token, doing an ICO (something retail as 10.000 clients are much better then 1 client), and living on your own time and vision. We could even create a team, I've already got the idea. 
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I think that rather than addressing the comment per se, I'd just say to his manager, in passing, something to the effect of "It was nice to spend some time your new starter the other day. He seems like a really good guy. He gave me a fresh perceptive on Product X and helped me crack a bug while he was at it. Happy days!"
98.4% of statistics are made up on the spot.
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PeejayAdams wrote: I'd just say to his manager, in passing, something to the effect of
Oooh, I really like that. I'll go with that. I have meeting on Tue where the manager will be present, I'll bring mention it after the meeting.
Latest Article - Code Review - What You Can Learn From a Single Line of Code
Learning to code with python is like learning to swim with those little arm floaties. It gives you undeserved confidence and will eventually drown you. - DangerBunny
Artificial intelligence is the only remedy for natural stupidity. - CDP1802
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There is nothing like being positive about a coworker to a manager, tends to confuse the crap out of them. So there are 2 benefits of doing this.
This is especially valid when you are so senior/essential that you position is unassailable.
Never underestimate the power of human stupidity
RAH
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Have you used webMethods?
Caveat Emptor.
"Progress doesn't come from early risers – progress is made by lazy men looking for easier ways to do things." Lazarus Long
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Marc Clifton wrote: Would you take this just as a failed attempt by the manager at humor?
Would you ignore it, keep your head down, and not do anything like this again, even though the company's "employee conduct" manual expressly has Dilbertesque phrases about team building, communication, etc.
Would you write a complaint?
Other?
Tell Marc that he should keep doing what he thinks is best and ignore everyone else.
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Bassam Abdul-Baki wrote: Tell Marc that he should keep doing what he thinks is best and ignore everyone else.
If Marc did that, you'd be reading about "the police are still interrogating Marc regarding his motives." 
Latest Article - Code Review - What You Can Learn From a Single Line of Code
Learning to code with python is like learning to swim with those little arm floaties. It gives you undeserved confidence and will eventually drown you. - DangerBunny
Artificial intelligence is the only remedy for natural stupidity. - CDP1802
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I should have phrased that better to imply doing the work. There's always another option.
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Marc Clifton wrote: the police are still interrogating Marc regarding his motives
I would think that the motives would be obvious, even to a policeman. 
If you have an important point to make, don't try to be subtle or clever. Use a pile driver. Hit the point once. Then come back and hit it again. Then hit it a third time - a tremendous whack.
--Winston Churchill
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Talk to your manager and explain your perspective of what happened.
But, remember, the 'new' employee has his OWN manager he has to report to and if you sully the waters, it may be the waters he has to swim in.
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Unless the manager is a known jerk, I'd assume his intentions are good and he's just trying to prevent you from being distracted/interrupted. One of the top complaints I've heard form developers I've worked with over the years is that constant distractions prevent them from accomplishing as much as they'd hoped to.
It sounds to me like it's at least possible this manager knows your time is both limited and valuable, and he's trying to ensure that you've got the space needed to focus. So perhaps just approach him and tell him you appreciate that he's trying to proactively guard you from interruptions. But also mention that working with the new employee was your idea, that it helped you solve an immediate problem, and helped you better understand the third party product you integrate with.
It's also possible that this manager is just upset that his new hire went off and spent a couple of hours with you, and he's using your limited schedule as an excuse to exercise a little bit of power over his subordinate. In this case, the approach of telling the manager that
a) You appreciate his efforts and
b) You appreciate his employee's efforts
still works, because it boxes him and an makes it difficult for him to retaliate in any meaningful way. If possible, post your comments in the same chat where the original comment occurred (so your comment will also be logged), and follow up by thanking him in person too.
That way, if his intentions are good, you both win. And if his intentions were nefarious, you still win...and he doesn't lose, because you make him and his new hire look good. If he's a jerk who likes playing politics, he'll note that you skilfully outmaneuvered him, and in the future he'll be careful about how he treats you to ensure you you remain an ally, not an enemy.
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Ryan Peden wrote: Unless the manager is a known jerk
Bingo! The general consensus among the rank and file is that they would never want to work for this guy. In fact, at least two people that I know of have asked (and were granted) transfers to another department because of this manager.
Ryan Peden wrote: It's also possible that this manager is just upset that his new hire went off and spent a couple of hours with you, and he's using your limited schedule as an excuse to exercise a little bit of power over his subordinate.
Bingo again! His management style is basically smile and say good morning as he passes you in the hallway, and smack you with a stick for any initiative or deviation from his bean counter mentality until you submit to being a drone. I suspect he will incarnate as a Borg in the far future.
Latest Article - Code Review - What You Can Learn From a Single Line of Code
Learning to code with python is like learning to swim with those little arm floaties. It gives you undeserved confidence and will eventually drown you. - DangerBunny
Artificial intelligence is the only remedy for natural stupidity. - CDP1802
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Ryan Peeden: in the future he'll be careful about how he treats you
And will be coming up with a carefully thought-out strategy to ensure that you and pesky little Mark atleast think twice before outmaneuvering him in the future. 
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Based purely on this anecdote, I think his manager made a valid observation. From HIS perspective, you are a limited resource and you are using up time of his resource in what may be unrelated to the latter's work. It's entirely possible his manager doesn't really care, but is reacting to a message given him by your manager or upper management.
More importantly, this was written to another person, not you. It's really none of your business. In addition, this isn't your "own time"; it's the company's time.
My advice: IF this looks like it's NOT going to blow up into a bigger issue, do nothing. Otherwise, go to the other guy's manager and say something like, "I heard you had concerns about the time I spent with X the other day. He was curious about integration and I felt that briefing him would be helpful to him and the company. I apologize for not clearing this with you first."
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Joe Woodbury wrote: More importantly, this was written to another person, not you. It's really none of your business.
Agreed.
Joe Woodbury wrote: I apologize for not clearing this with you first."
Oh god, I can't do that. I don't participate well in an arbitrary dictatorship where I have to seek permission before taking a sh*t.
Latest Article - Code Review - What You Can Learn From a Single Line of Code
Learning to code with python is like learning to swim with those little arm floaties. It gives you undeserved confidence and will eventually drown you. - DangerBunny
Artificial intelligence is the only remedy for natural stupidity. - CDP1802
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Do you know his home address?
".45 ACP - because shooting twice is just silly" - JSOP, 2010
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You can never have too much ammo - unless you're swimming, or on fire. - JSOP, 2010
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When you pry the gun from my cold dead hands, be careful - the barrel will be very hot. - JSOP, 2013
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I hope Marc follows up on this one. I'm ready to take notes. 
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I would opt for a direct confrontation 
Clears the air as quickly as can, and as a pro he wouldn't be taking that personally. What would you prefer, if you were in the managers shoes?
Bastard Programmer from Hell 
If you can't read my code, try converting it here[^]
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