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Quite right Marc!
I think there is a generational gap. The more experienced developers come from an era where software/hardware was a bit more blurred, you had to switch into assembly on occasion and know your calling conventions.
Then that awful Gang of Four book came out and everyone started spouting patterns the whole time. Then, God Forbid, computers became cool (they were extremely uncool in my youth) and people with silly haircuts got involved. Then that agile nonsense arrived and everyone worried about how they worked rather than whether it worked.
If I were to hire someone, I'd find the oldest person I could (punch cards at a minimum) who hadn't actually slipped in senility yet (or just mildly).
Regards,
Rob Philpott.
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Rob Philpott wrote: If I were to hire someone, I'd find the oldest person I could (punch cards at a minimum) who hadn't actually slipped in senility yet (or just mildly).
That sounds like an advert for me. I am [un]lucky enough to have kept almost all my hair and I don't have a silly haircut. I don't consider my haircut silly. At present I believe the senility to be still mild (no worse than it was 30 years ago) and it's balanced by a healthy degree of curmudgeonliness.
Phil
The opinions expressed in this post are not necessarily those of the author, especially if you find them impolite, inaccurate or inflammatory.
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This discussion has gotten me to wonder just how old, on average, CP regulars are. I'm 52, which explains why I like this group so much.  Maybe this would make a good straw poll question.
When you are dead, you won't even know that you are dead. It's a pain only felt by others.
Same thing when you are stupid.
modified 19-Nov-21 21:01pm.
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I think there is fairly high representation of us old farts here but I doubt we are the majority, even of the active members.
Never underestimate the power of human stupidity
RAH
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Rob Philpott wrote: If I were to hire someone, I'd find the oldest person I could (punch cards at a minimum)
I might just fit the bill.
Back in the day, I wired the plugboards for: the IBM Card Sorter, Electronic Multiplying Punch and Tabulator. Then on to programming in Assembler and (when unavoidable) COBOL.
Rob Philpott wrote: who hadn't actually slipped in senility yet (or just mildly)
Damn! Fell at the last hurdle. 
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Rob Philpott wrote: you had to switch into assembly on occasion and know your calling conventions.
I was also, quite frankly, tickled by the fact that she still considered how much memory / disk space a record took. A rare thing nowadays.
Rob Philpott wrote: Then that awful Gang of Four book came out and everyone started spouting patterns the whole time.
I remember when that came out, and all the developers were yammering on about this or that design pattern, and I thought, WTF, I've been coding like this for years, and they're talking as if it's something new.
Rob Philpott wrote: and people with silly haircuts got involved.
I resemble that remark, except that I haven't actually had a haircut in years. Pony tail stays about shoulder length. 
Rob Philpott wrote: Then that agile nonsense arrived and everyone worried about how they worked rather than whether it worked.
Heck, then everyone worried about how they worked rather than working!
Marc
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Rob Philpott wrote: who hadn't actually slipped in senility yet (or just mildly).
They'd still sling out better code than the young-uns.
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Marc Clifton wrote: things that I so often have not encountered with cough younger devs.
I think you meant to put the cough in a different place:
"...things that I so often have not encountered with younger (cough) devs."
".45 ACP - because shooting twice is just silly" - JSOP, 2010
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You can never have too much ammo - unless you're swimming, or on fire. - JSOP, 2010
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When you pry the gun from my cold dead hands, be careful - the barrel will be very hot. - JSOP, 2013
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John Simmons / outlaw programmer wrote: I think you meant to put the cough in a different place:
Good point!
Marc
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Are you by any chance using COBOL tools from MicroFocus? Just wondering. Nudge nudge, wink wink.
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Well, it wouldn't be him, it'd be the other dev he talked with. She is the COBOL dev.
#SupportHeForShe
Government can give you nothing but what it takes from somebody else. A government big enough to give you everything you want is big enough to take everything you've got, including your freedom.-Ezra Taft Benson
You must accept 1 of 2 basic premises: Either we are alone in the universe or we are not alone. Either way, the implications are staggering!-Wernher von Braun
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Basildane wrote: Are you by any chance using COBOL tools from MicroFocus?
Me, no. I'll ask her though. 
Marc
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Marc Clifton wrote: isciplines including good code structure, commenting practices, readability, maintainability, etc. Things that transcend the language
Are you trying to push some Methodology?
Are you writing a book or something?
Is this some lead up to you saying, "And now, introducing my book on Agile Scrum..."?
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raddevus wrote: saying, "And now, introducing my book on Agile Scrum..."?
I read that too fast and didn't see the "R" in "Scrum". 
".45 ACP - because shooting twice is just silly" - JSOP, 2010
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You can never have too much ammo - unless you're swimming, or on fire. - JSOP, 2010
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When you pry the gun from my cold dead hands, be careful - the barrel will be very hot. - JSOP, 2013
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Is that new? I could've sworn I've never seen that "R" in there before (as in, ever)...
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raddevus wrote: Are you trying to push some Methodology?
I gave up on that a while back, and just started doing. The effect was:
1) profit
2) schedules met
3) fewer bugs, and easier to fix bugs
4) being told "wow, I can never go back to doing programming the way everyone else does it."
4 being a good thing. 
Marc
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For my first job as a lieutenant in the Air Force, I was put in charge of a software team using COBOL to develop aerial port software (think FedEx for the Air Force). Of course I had never used COBOL in school and had never even seen it. The enlisted NCOs that worked for me took me under their wing and showed me how to develop using COBOL. I look back on those days fondly - it was a lot of fun and we did some great things with COBOL on an 80 character/25 line DOS-based GUI display. Not that I would give up .NET development and go back, but it sure was a fun time.
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Bring your headphones, and by the time you've untangled them you will have reached your destination.
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Well, they have to pay the Chinese factory 3 cents (including delivery) for each one, and they're allowed to make a little profit, aren't they?
I wanna be a eunuchs developer! Pass me a bread knife!
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Not if you're travelling on a Southern train!
Who am I kidding? Southern don't do "trains" any more; they only do "excuses".
"These people looked deep within my soul and assigned me a number based on the order in which I joined."
- Homer
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And "strikes".
Don't forget "strikes".
Bad command or file name. Bad, bad command! Sit! Stay! Staaaay...
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No, the RMT do the strikes. Southern just do the excuses as to why they haven't resolved the dispute yet, and why there aren't any trains between the strikes.
"These people looked deep within my soul and assigned me a number based on the order in which I joined."
- Homer
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Investment fund largely backing oil of tropical origin (9)
Slogans aren't solutions.
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PORTFOLIO
Investment fund
largely Most of
backing BACKWARDS
oil of tropical origin
OIL OF TROP
Bad command or file name. Bad, bad command! Sit! Stay! Staaaay...
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