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Let's say I'm crazy enough to install Windows Server 2016 to host an app I want to keep going in the cloud 24/7. There's no way to stop this thing from magically rebooting willy nilly outside of setting the normal business hours or whatnot... but say when not in that timeframe, Windows will up and just restart la la la without a care to the wind for a *server* app?
Did I miss the memo where MS started smoking crack?
Jeremy Falcon
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Possibly MS has decided to cede the server market to Linux.
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Jeremy Falcon wrote: Did I miss the memo where MS started smoking crack?
Have you been on a secret mission to Mars? Mickeysoft has slowly been losing its grasp on reality over the last ten years.
The language is JavaScript. that of Mordor, which I will not utter here
This is Javascript. If you put big wheels and a racing stripe on a golf cart, it's still a f***ing golf cart.
"I don't know, extraterrestrial?"
"You mean like from space?"
"No, from Canada."
If software development were a circus, we would all be the clowns.
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Well, I mean I knew it was doing that for the desktop app on Win10, but the server...
Anyway, Google says I can just disable the Windows Update service to stop it, so we'll see.
Jeremy Falcon
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I think if you dig deep enough into some of the 'hidden' settings (taskscheduler/updateorchestrator) you might find a way to stop forced restarts. Sorry, it's Saturday and that's all I can offer. I am experimenting with the equivalent settings in WinTen and am waiting for evidence that the hack/setting actually works. Good luck! 
"Go forth into the source" - Neal Morse
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Anyway, Google says I can just disable the Windows Update service to stop it, so we'll see. *crosses fingers*
Jeremy Falcon
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You just need to set a group policy. Or two actually.
If you still feel unsafe you can of course also disable the Windows Update Service.
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Good. I mean I'm all for updates, but randomly restarting a server is bad juju.
Jeremy Falcon
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I'm not having a server to check at the moment, but a quick googling found it for me: Prevent Windows Server 2012 from forcing a reboot after updates - Server Fault[^]
Chaoix wrote: Press Windows Key+R to open the run prompt.
Type "gpedit.msc" and press enter.
In the "Local Group Policy Editor", navigate to Computer Configuration > Administrative Templates > Windows Components > Windows Update.
Enable the "Configure Automatic Updates" policy and set it to "2".
Enable the "No auto-restart with logged on users for scheduled automatic updates installations" policy.
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I just disabled the service. Living on the edge. 
Jeremy Falcon
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Just don't forget to run it every now and then, there sadly is a reason they made such a stupid move. 
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This is why I am really thinking, Linux is a better way to go than Windows OS, for server apps.
At this point, what with the .NET Core, Mono C#, etc., I shouldn't have any problems running a C# web server on Linux. I'll have to give that a try actually.
[edit]And as for the database, I really like PostgreSQL, and I think there's Linq2SQL support for that (I don't use EF!), though not sure. And since I'm not tied in with IIS on any of my web apps, I don't have to worry about that! [/edit]
Marc
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I've always been a *Nix fan since I was a teenager, it's just this app requires Windows or else I wouldn't bother with it.
Jeremy Falcon
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I know 'Topshelf' and I'm pretty sure 'Quartz.Net' also runs on Mono, so Linux is a serious option for services in C#
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Npgsql[^]
PostgreSQL data provider for .NET.
It's awesome.
What do you get when you cross a joke with a rhetorical question?
The metaphorical solid rear-end expulsions have impacted the metaphorical motorized bladed rotating air movement mechanism.
Do questions with multiple question marks annoy you???
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Jeremy Falcon wrote: Windows will up and just restart la la la without a care to the wind for a *server* app?
Hi,
An unpatched server on a network increases the risk of attack on all of the other networked devices.
It's time for everyone to realize that many computing devices are part of a global interconnected network. Over the last decade we have relied on human server administrators to be responsible for keeping up-to-date and applying security patches. That is not working very well.
It seems perfectly reasonable to give the server administrator several days or perhaps weeks to perform a manual reboot. if that does not happen... force the update.
I would suggest having a look at Manage updates using Windows Update for Business[^]
Most feature updates may be deferred for up to 180 days. Some security updates can be deferred for up to 30 days depending on severity. Unfortunately there are also remotely exploitable security issues that simply cannot be deferred.
One last thing...
You heard it here first. Within the next decade Linux distro organizations will be highly encouraged to have a similar forced-update mechanism. This will probably be negotiated and network-enforced via future trade agreements such as TPP and NAFTA and/or other future agreements.
Best Wishes,
-David Delaune
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Dude. I don't think you realize I'm a very senior level professional that's fullly aware of all of this. Also, if you really think deferrring will stop it from rebooting when it feels like it, maybe you should take a look again. When it does decide to eventually install the update it will reboot whether you like it or not. And without consent.
And Unix and most likely Linux will never adopt this. Everyone knows a magical reboot you have no real control over is foolish. Everybody. Except MS it seems.
Jeremy Falcon
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Jeremy Falcon wrote: Also, if you really think deferrring will stop it from rebooting when it feels like it, maybe you should take a look again. When it does decide to eventually install the update it will reboot whether you like it or not. And without consent.
I thought that's exactly what Randor said:
Randor wrote: It seems perfectly reasonable to give the server administrator several days or perhaps weeks to perform a manual reboot. if that does not happen... force the update
Jeremy Falcon wrote: And Unix and most likely Linux will never adopt this
One could argue that the exact opposite of this might happen (both opinions being predictions anyway), but only time will tell what would happen.
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Rajesh R Subramanian wrote: I thought that's exactly what Randor said:
Not quite. Delaying something doesn't mean it'll magically stop from a reboot without your knowledge when it finally does decided to download a patch. It just simply defers the "magical reboot". Your server can still go down willy nilly, just 180 days later than everyone else.
Rajesh R Subramanian wrote: One could argue that the exact opposite of this might happen (both opinions being predictions anyway), but only time will tell what would happen.
One could, but then they'd be wrong. 
Jeremy Falcon
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CoreOs already does that, they have it as one of the reasons to choose them[^].
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Keep in mind I'm new to containers but even with that I could see it... almost. Not so much in a server environment though. And I'm sure some people will use a container on a server but I digress.
Jeremy Falcon
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Randor wrote: It seems perfectly reasonable to give the server administrator several days or perhaps weeks to perform a manual reboot. if that does not happen... force the update.
Absolutely NOT. Computer systems are tools of the business, not the other way around.
The vendor does not own the environment, does not manage the environment, and has absolutely no say in how the environment is managed. They can recommend, but it is NOT their call.
I have worked in complex, highly regulated environments where any computer rebooting in the middle of a process will cause (at least) hundreds of thousands of dollars in damage, not including loss of business due to loss of confidence by the customers. People get fired for doing anything that negatively affects such processes, so I don't expect any OS that can force reboots will be allowed.
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BryanFazekas wrote: Absolutely NOT. Computer systems are tools of the business, not the other way around.
It's always easy to see when someone is speaking from experience or not. You sir, sound like you're speaking from experience.
BryanFazekas wrote: The vendor does not own the environment, does not manage the environment, and has absolutely no say in how the environment is managed. They can recommend, but it is NOT their call.
BryanFazekas wrote: I have worked in complex, highly regulated environments where any computer rebooting in the middle of a process will cause (at least) hundreds of thousands of dollars in damage
I knew it. I could tell this before I got to this part. I think anyone with any real server admin experience would agree with you and I.
Jeremy Falcon
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And how much do you pay out from those hundreds of thousand dollars to those clients who lost everything using your service because a timing issue existed in your system unpatched? Or because Google is your competitor[^]?
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