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Oh, yeh..........I never scrolled that far down the first time! 
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I've deleted the thread containing the bad message.
I'll analyze it tomorrow to see what evil spell was cast and consult the high mage for a counter spell.
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Thanks!
What do you get when you cross a joke with a rhetorical question?
---
The metaphorical solid rear-end expulsions have impacted the metaphorical motorized bladed rotating air movement mechanism.
---
Do questions with multiple question marks annoy you???
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I've looked at the offending messages, but found no problems. I've re-enabled them and refreshed the cache and all is good. Probably a caching issue, something that corrupted the cached message data. Should be fun to find as it probably is a network error that is not being handled well by Redis.
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I hate to say that it is part of the game, but if you got a bunch of guys skating around at high speed on razor sharp blades, something like this is bound to happen every once in a while. This is not the first time and I doubt it will be the last.
Within you lies the power for good - Use it!
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I hope you'll cut me an ounce of prime-slack if I float a general question hearkening back to the olden times when 64k was a big honking number as un-affordable as a Rolex. This is not "market research."
Back in the day, the More (son of ThinkTank) outlining-and-lots-more application created originally by that singular character, Dave Winer[1] [^] (who went to start some interesting pre-Net stuff, like Userland), was a big deal.
Sales of More, if I recall correctly, were up there with the big productivity apps of the day (WordStar ? Lotus 1-2-3).
And, there was a cool "desk accessory" outliner by David Dunham [^] for the Mac called "Acta" that was in widespread use. Dunham went on to create the Opal outliner for Mac OSX ... which I've never seen.
Here's the question: what led to the general decline (assuming there was a general decline) in the use of outliners/outlining ?
Could use of outlining have not really declined: it's just that the major productivity tools, like MS Word and Excel, now incorporated "folding" or outlining abilities ? So dedicated apps were no longer needed ?
Or, outlining was something of a time-limited phenom, a trend that did not persist ? Yet another "viral phenomenon" triggered by a bunch of power-users generating hype fed to them by marketers, followed by a bunch of lemmings singing: "oh yeah, I gotta have that ?" on the way to the app-store 
I'd appreciate hearing from any old-time users of More or other outliners as to what you think may have happened vis-a-vis outlining tools in wide use.
Perhaps, it's just that UI's (apps, internet) featuring drill-down, folding, hierarchic navigation, master-detail, etc., are just so ubiquitous today, that there's no need to have a special tool ?
thanks, Bill
[1] My favorite memory of Dave was at the fancy dinner soiree thrown by Steve Jobs as part of the NeXT roll-out: Dave stood up and shouted at Jobs from across the spacious banquet-hall: "How are we going to make any money when it doesn't have a floppy drive ?" The issue of the high-cost of distributing software on the expensive media for the Canon magneto-optical drive for the NeXT machine was an issue on the mind of many developers.
«A man will be imprisoned in a room with a door that's unlocked and opens inwards ... as long as it does not occur to him to pull rather than push» Wittgenstein
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When I wrote those e-books, the outline feature in Word was crucial. I used it two ways -- first, I created an outline down to a sufficient level of detail so that I knew I had enough content and I knew what content I needed to research in depth and what content I needed to simply talk about.
Second, while writing, I would often realize that the organization was flawed -- I'm introducing a concept later that I actually need to introduce earlier, for example. Again, the outline really helped to see the flow of things.
I certainly don't need an outlining tool (unless it were really sophisticated, more like HyperCard (since you're bringing up great but old apps) because I would just fire up Word.
However, even when writing a lengthy article, I don't outline because I can just move stuff around if I need to, and I think that may point to why outlining has declined -- used to be, you HAD to write an outline because you were then going to type your paper out on a typewriter. Ugh. Then we lived in this quasi-automated state where we replaced our activities with computers, such as with specific outlining software, and eventually these programs simply became components of much more sophisticated programs.
However, I really would like an outlining tool that could manage both online and offline references, code snippets, personal commentaries, pictures, file links, etc. Which is why I mentioned HyperCard and which actually is why I started writing Intertexti[^] and actually use it a lot myself for note taking.
Marc
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Thanks, Marc, that's exactly the kind of thoughtful response I hoped I would get !
Like you, I use my own custom-made outliner; I do intend to publish it one day on CP, but every time I think it's "ready for prime-time," I think of ... another feature it has to have
Oh yeah, HyperCard/HyperTalk was a very cool thing in its day, and I had a lot of fun with it. It was kind of too bad that Jobs put the kibosh on Crow and Calhoun getting to release their last amped-up version of HyperCard (3.0 that was previewed at the WWDC in '96, but which, I was told, was in development for a few years after that), but, as a business decision (following the ejecting, and then re-incorporation, of Claris, etc.), it probably made sense.
cheers, Bill
«A man will be imprisoned in a room with a door that's unlocked and opens inwards ... as long as it does not occur to him to pull rather than push» Wittgenstein
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OK, that settles it.
I'm going to do an article for CP that shows how to structure documents (whether they're tech docs or the next great Icelandic bestsellers).
Here's a tip: "sophistication" isn't meant to mean "time-consuming", "difficult to use", or "hard to remember".
Elegance, no matter how complicated it is, is simplicity.
I wanna be a eunuchs developer! Pass me a bread knife!
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Mark_Wallace wrote: I'm going to do an article for CP that shows how to structure documents (whether they're tech docs or the next great Icelandic bestsellers).
I look forward to reading it!
Marc
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OMG, I LOVED More!!!
Nothing like it back in the day!!!
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So, why did you stop using it ? Or, do you use some other tool, now ?
cheers, Bill
«A man will be imprisoned in a room with a door that's unlocked and opens inwards ... as long as it does not occur to him to pull rather than push» Wittgenstein
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I stopped using my Mac basically, but this functionality is everywhere now!
I mostly use that functionality in mind mapping applications(MindJet)!
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What I do remember is that More was yet another of the things that were ten-thousand times better for use in producing documentation than XML is.
What I can't remember is something that's less than a thousand times better.
I wanna be a eunuchs developer! Pass me a bread knife!
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"I have… seen things you people wouldn't believe… Attack ships on fire off the shoulder of Orion. I watched c-beams glitter in the dark near the Tannhäuser Gate. All those… moments… will be lost in time, like tears… in… rain. Time… to die…"
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DEoF-Blt8UI[^]
And it looks like they are still burning...
Good pic!
Bad command or file name. Bad, bad command! Sit! Stay! Staaaay...
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Running that blade again, are we?
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It's true! I wouldn't believe it! 
But I think I might watch it again, see if it has good as when I was a kid! ^_^
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It does hold up, mind you with Gaff I keep expecting Toasters!
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Nice, makes me feel small! Happy New Year To You!
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Quote: Beverly Hillbillies' star Donna Douglas dead at 81
Used to watch this show when younger, can't believe she was 82 where does the time go?
clickity[^]![Rose | [Rose]](https://codeproject.global.ssl.fastly.net/script/Forums/Images/rose.gif)
New version: WinHeist Version 2.1.0
There's a fine line between crazy and free spirited and it's usually a prescription.
I'm currently unsupervised, I know it freaks me out too but the possibilities are endless.
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Mike Hankey wrote: where does the time go?
If you answer, "family, parties, beer, etc" then you're doing it right!
veni bibi saltavi
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Nagy Vilmos wrote: If you answer, "family, parties, beer, etc" then you're doing it right!
You got that right!
New version: WinHeist Version 2.1.0
There's a fine line between crazy and free spirited and it's usually a prescription.
I'm currently unsupervised, I know it freaks me out too but the possibilities are endless.
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Mike Hankey wrote: Used to watch this show when younger
Me too. R.I.P. Elly May Clampett.
Once you lose your pride the rest is easy.
I would agree with you but then we both would be wrong.
In the end, only three things matter: how much you loved, how gently you lived, and how gracefully you let go of things not meant for you. – Buddha
The report of my death was an exaggeration - Mark Twain
Simply Elegant Designs Jim<</div>
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