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Marc Clifton wrote: And finally, in the deepest irony of all, our very system of education is designed to dumb-down the population. One only need look at who was in charge of creating public education to see the motivations behind ensuring that the worker was smart enough to do his job but not so smart as to threaten the economic/socio/political hierarchy
And wouldn't it be nice if the upper strata of the economic/socio/political hierarchy were actually smart enough to use the education that they can afford?
I'm not a programmer but I play one at the office
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Lilith.C wrote: And wouldn't it be nice if the upper strata of the economic/socio/political hierarchy were actually smart enough to use the education that they can afford?
Indeed, however the horror stories I've heard from people getting their doctorate degrees from places like Harvard lead to me believe that they actually aren't receiving much value. Tenured professors that teach from their own obsolete textbooks, students given assignments requiring reading thousands of pages in one week, an intolerance of new thinking in the classroom...I have not been impressed by the accounts of my friends who have gone through the process.
Marc
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Marc Clifton wrote: Religion was the first great dumbing-down of the masses. Government became the next great dumbing-down, followed by the advent of the industrial revolution and the "corporations have the same rights as people" laws. And finally, in the deepest irony of all, our very system of education is designed to dumb-down the population.
I'm going to have to disagree with you on this one.
Religion: Some of the greatest of man's achievements (Pyramids, Cathedrals, Art) have been response to a religious conviction or drive. Western art, architecture, literature - and indeed, civilization owes a tremendous debt to religion.
Government: Feel free to point out any place at any time where the lack of strong, stable government has resulted in intellectual freedom and development.
The same could be said for the rest of your indictments - and if you look across religion, government, education, and industry perhaps you'll know they've all one thing in common: mankind. Seems to me we've identified the problem. 
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MehGerbil wrote: mankind. Seems to me we've identified the problem.
Aye, on that point I'll agree.
You bring up some good arguments. Perhaps the difference is that what I hear you to be describing is more archetypical and thus demonstrating the best of religion, gov't, etc., whereas what I tend to be biased in my view is the implementation, which I see as being frequently and deeply flawed. For example, there are many cases where a strong stable government prohibits intellectual freedom and development. Seems like North Korea would make a good example.
For example:
MehGerbil wrote: civilization owes a tremendous debt to religion.
Aye, and religion owes a tremendous debt to civilization. 
Marc
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Marc Clifton wrote: Perhaps the difference is that what I hear you to be describing is more archetypical and thus demonstrating the best of religion, gov't, etc., whereas what I tend to be biased in my view is the implementation, which I see as being frequently and deeply flawed.
I think you should recognize and expose flaws.
My concern is that many run to the next big thing and think that it offers salvation.
Science/rational thinking comes to mind.
Man is still at the helm there - it will produce the same abuse as always.
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MehGerbil wrote: Religion: Some of the greatest of man's achievements (Pyramids, ...) have been response to a religious conviction or drive.
Naw, dat twas spaceships landing, aliens making people slaves done did dat.
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I don't agree that "Religion was the first great dumbing-down of the masses".
The fact that various priesthoods and temples through history have held knowledge that the general population didn't have, doesn't necessarily mean that the priests took it away from them.
It always seemed to work the opposite way when I worked in I.T.
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I'd like to think of a really "Smart" reply to that post Marc, but unfortunately I feel to "Dumb" at the moment
Shawty
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In the spirit of "quis custodiet ipsos custodies"[^], there must ultimately be an expert source of the knowledge implemented by the software system, implemented by a 'not dumbed-down' programmer. Of course, in a post-Singularity world, that expert and that programmer might be facets of a machine intelligence.
I've been a developer for over 30 years. Given the rate of change in our field, that gives me a perspective that borders on the archaeological. Regardless of the level of automation provided to our users, and to us in our tools, I still believe there is a fundamental competence required to create a quality product. The biggest thing that has changed in that time is the scale at which those products are used. Our applications are flotsam on the surface of an ocean whose depth is ever-increasing.
Hmm. For some reason, the following line from Star Trek: The Next Generation, episode "Q Who?", comes to mind:
"It's not safe out here. It's wondrous, with treasures to satiate desires both subtle and gross."
I still enjoy working here, despite any 'dumbing down'.
Software Zen: delete this;
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Oh my, what eloquence you have wrought in this response, what subtle shades of meaning's shadow move within ! Seriously, it's a pleasure to read writing like this.Gary R. Wheeler wrote: The biggest thing that has changed in that time is the scale at which those products are used. Our applications are flotsam on the surface of an ocean whose depth is ever-increasing.
I also think that another "scale" has changed: time; the "rate of change." For hardware, to some extent "Moore's Law," and, imho, for software, some kind of strange-attractor whose size, and memory consumption, doubles every generation, but whose performance remains about the same ?
I have some personal, literary, resonance with "flotsam" that I won't describe here, but I like the fact that the term, in maritime law, refers to debris of a shipwreck floating at sea. Could the "wreck" here be that of collective intelligence and attention-span ? I dunno.
I share with you, I think, the view-tempered-by-age that there are some constant features of "intelligence" and practical ability (competence) which are anchored in the slowly evolving consistency of our primate hardware, and wetware. And, I do not think there is some mythical past that is the "Golden Age" now forever lost, corrupted.
And, I think I also share with you the feeling/attitude that this is a great time to be alive, and to be ever-curious, ever-humble intellectually, and always busy learning for the sheer pleasure in it.
«If you search in Google for 'no-one ever got fired for buying IBM:' the top-hit is the Wikipedia article on 'Fear, uncertainty and doubt'» What does that tell you about sanity in these times?
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Thanks, Bill; I've had many of your sterling examples as a guide .
Software Zen: delete this;
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Quote: "It's not safe out here. It's wondrous, with treasures to satiate desires both subtle and gross."
The best Star Trek quote ever? Could be.
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I think the character 'Q' and John de Lancie were my favorite parts of ST:NG.
Software Zen: delete this;
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Automation can yield an illusion of correctness that promotes dumbness.
I write analytical software. Analysts want software that "does more" so they can do less but do it more often and make more money. The problem is that a substantially useful program promotes operation within its framework and a loss of knowledge of underlying techniques over time. Pressed for a solution, the round peg is jammed in the square hole to get "the answer". The analyst, distanced from the ability to apply first principles of modeling, is reduced to a glorified button pusher. The software is applying their science for them. Ya don't use it, ya lose it. Seen it happen.
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From his website:
"He holds a B.A. from Dartmouth College and an M.A., in English and American Literature and Language, from Harvard University"
He has no scientific training so you should take any commentary he provides on scientific research as just that: the opinions of someone who is unskilled 
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Carr: Has had a novel which was a Pulitzer Prize finalist and:
"His essays ... have been collected in several anthologies, including The Best American Science and Nature Writing, The Best Spiritual Writing, and The Best Technology Writing.
... is a former member of the Encyclopedia Britannica’s editorial board of advisors, was on the steering board of the World Economic Forum’s cloud computing project, and was a writer-in-residence at the University of California at Berkeley’s journalism school." Those factoids of his work do not necessarily make me agree with everything he says, or mean I accept the premises of his article I cited.
However, they do indicate to me his thought is not insubstantial, frivolous, narcissistically self-aggrandizing, etc. And, the issues he raises I find interesting to think about.
«If you search in Google for 'no-one ever got fired for buying IBM:' the top-hit is the Wikipedia article on 'Fear, uncertainty and doubt'» What does that tell you about sanity in these times?
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The fact is that airline pilots are less “skilled” today due to flight control systems.
When there is a problem, even when it would be obvious to someone less skilled, pilots will question themselves until it is too late; depending instead on the flight system to “save” them instead of using their own senses and common sense.
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Google Translate produced this (from para. 9 of http://habrahabr.ru/post/166377/ (don't ask!))
Tower of Mordor - it is certainly beautiful, but how to decipher?
originally:
Башня из Мордора — это, конечно, красиво, но как это расшифровать?
It made me chuckle. Is "Tower of Mordor" a good translation? Is this a term [now] in common (geek) use - or are Google having a laugh?
"...there's what people want to hear, there's what people want to believe, there's everything else, THEN there's the truth!" - New York D.A., The International
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Without knowing what a native Russian would read it as, a quick google for "Башня из Мордора" came back with all links to Russian Lord of The Rings images, movies, and such - so I'm guessing that "Tower of Mordor" or similar is a literal and accurate translation: Google[^]
[edit]Typos[/edit]
Bad command or file name. Bad, bad command! Sit! Stay! Staaaay...
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You should retitle that "Totally lost in translation".
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Translation is legit, so is google translate (most of the times).
source -> i know russian
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thanks it help me lot. please suggest me- how to run this application in multiple systems...?
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At the top of this page, it clearly says: "if you need specific help please use the programming forums."
So read it in future, and post in the right place.
Normally, that would be here: http://www.codeproject.com/Questions/ask.aspx[^] but in this case, it looks like you are trying to reply to a specific answer, comment, or article - and you need to do that where the information you are trying to reply to is located. There are 11 million users here, all posting furiously and if you don't use the appropriate "message" or "reply" system then the one person you need to talk to doesn't get notified - so they won't respond to you unless you are really, really lucky and they happen to spot it and realize it's for them!
Bad command or file name. Bad, bad command! Sit! Stay! Staaaay...
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OriginalGriff wrote: There are 11 million users here, all posting furiously
Furious posting, never post when your furious, you'll regret it. For proof look at the quality of the posts in QA.
It was broke, so I fixed it.
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