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Hello all, I am doing a small research in my company to switch from ClearCase(IBM's Source Control System) and ClearQuest(IBM's task/project/backlog management system) to Team Foundation server.
I till now found out that TFS is much more fast in terms of checking out, checking in functionality and have great in-visual-studio interface, also that it's compare and code review functionality is great.
As we use VS-13 and our project is completedly in C#.
I want to know what you guys suggest about TFS' Task management. is it reach in features and also have you found out it's drawback?
Thanks in advance.
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We use TFS where I work, but I have to admit that I don't find it a particularly great tool. Having previously used Subversion, TFS (in terms of its source control features) is a bit weak.
TFS needs to be connected constantly to your network (as soon as you type into a source file it gets automatically checked out. If your network is down, you're stuck). Other tools such as Git and Subversion work in a disconnected manner. You are only ever connected to the repository when you actually check code in.
The merging features of TFS are not as intuitive either. In Subversion for example conflicted files are highlighted in red to draw your attention to them. In TFS this doesn't happen. It's much easier to make a mistake in TFS than in various other tools.
For builds there are tools such as CruiseControl.NET, TeamCity and Jenkins that do a better job than TFS too.
Unless you are a large, enterprise Microsoft house, then I'd explore other options. We're looking at ditching TFS and using Git / Github and TeamCity.
"There are two ways of constructing a software design: One way is to make it so simple that there are obviously no deficiencies, and the other way is to make it so complicated that there are no obvious deficiencies. The first method is far more difficult." - C.A.R. Hoare
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I suppose ther might be a lot drawbacks in TFS.
I think some of you points contradicts with the reality. (Please correct me if I am wrong about any).
Dominic Burford wrote: TFS needs to be connected constantly to your network
TFS has work offline feature which will be activated when you loos the connectivity and it asks you if you want to continue working in offline mode and when you reconnect it shows you all the file you have changed in offline mode - This is same in ClearQuest - so that'll not be a problem.
Dominic Burford wrote: The merging features of TFS are not as intuitive either.
If you have used VS 10 or above, In those versions, TFS does actually suports a really nice (the Best I've ever seen) interface to merge file in, the compare tool of VS is the best, it also support editing the files right in the mearge tool, also the navigation between changes in awesome- atleast heavenly better that ClearQuest.
Now I have not used SVN that much, so may be I dont know exactly how it might be bettern in SVN.
but please let me know if TFS is bettern than ClearQuest in this sense.
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We use TFS exclusively and have not really had any issues with it at all. We use an extension to VS called CodeCompare that helps when reviewing merges, etc.
- I would love to change the world, but they won’t give me the source code.
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Yes Code comparer is a great tool.
Even in VS13 the inbuild comparer has the similar interface.
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Yes there is an option for working offline, but the default is to be connected all the time. Contrast this with tools that don't require permanent connectivity such as Git and Subversion where you only connect when you actually need to.
Tools such as Git and Subversion (in my opinion) are better at things such as merging due to the fact they are far more mature products. Subversion makes merging dead easy, whereas (in my opinion) it's all a bit clunky in TFS and not very intuitive.
The only upside (in my opinion) in using TFS is the integration with VS, but given that we're looking into ditching TFS, it's not that big a deal for us.
If TFS does what you want, then go with it. Once you've driven a Rolls Royce though, why would you be satisfied driving a Ford 
"There are two ways of constructing a software design: One way is to make it so simple that there are obviously no deficiencies, and the other way is to make it so complicated that there are no obvious deficiencies. The first method is far more difficult." - C.A.R. Hoare
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Dominic Burford wrote: TFS needs to be connected constantly to your network
Not true. You can work disconnected. When you go back online, TFS is smart enough to be able to reconcile your changes.
/ravi
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See my later reply. Yes it does, but the default operation is to work in connected mode. Contrast this with other tools such as Git and Subversion that work in a completely disconnected mode.
"There are two ways of constructing a software design: One way is to make it so simple that there are obviously no deficiencies, and the other way is to make it so complicated that there are no obvious deficiencies. The first method is far more difficult." - C.A.R. Hoare
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I have heard that TFS is good and getting better.
It is more than a Source Control system, so I have been told.
We don't use it, but that is not because it is bad. We use Rally for Agile project management and Bitbucket/Git for source control. So far, so good.
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TFS is better than it used to be and it is more than source control, but that may be where the problem lies.
My source control preferences in order are Git, SVN then TFS - unfortunately TFS seems to be the most commonly used in the companies I tend to be involved with.
Git and SVN don't have tools built in for managing Agile projects but I wouldn't say that the ones in TFS are great. Many people install Telerik's TFS Work Item Manager to fill in some of the gaps.
Personally I'd recommend finding a 3rd party solution (such as JetBrains YouTrack or JIRA) for managing projects - even better if you can get one that can be hooked into check-ins from TFS, Git or SVN.
Just about every developer I've worked with dislikes using TFS - me included 
How do you know so much about swallows? Well, you have to know these things when you're a king, you know.
modified 31-Aug-21 21:01pm.
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Brent Jenkins wrote: even better if you can get one that can be hooked into check-ins from TFS, Git or SVN.
I agree.
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Brent Jenkins wrote: ust about every developer I've worked with dislikes using TFS - me included 
I understand the feeling, but try using ClearQuest, TFS will be heaven for you. 
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BugTracker.NET has excellent integration with Subversion and Mercurial, and is written in ASP.NET, and is completely customisable. I used it in a previous company I worked for and found it to be a great tool 
"There are two ways of constructing a software design: One way is to make it so simple that there are obviously no deficiencies, and the other way is to make it so complicated that there are no obvious deficiencies. The first method is far more difficult." - C.A.R. Hoare
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I'll have to take a look at that one, thanks
How do you know so much about swallows? Well, you have to know these things when you're a king, you know.
modified 31-Aug-21 21:01pm.
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Agreed. Once again, instead of solving a specific problem, Microsoft tries to solve a gamut of them, and doesn't do any piece of it great.
That being said, TFS is improving; I haven't had the mystery "oh, the repository only sent me some of the modifications" in quite some time.
I don't think the work tracking is very good, but I'm developing and don't have to worry about that much. It just seems cumbersome and not user-friendly to try to use as a time tracking tool. What I hear from the product management types is they don't feel it's great either.
Recommend subversion + Jira or FogBugz, some tools which specialize in each problem space.
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The group I'm in has been using TFS for the last few years and I like it.
Previously we used Subversion (which is not suitable for use with code projects) and had no way of tracking work.
I do not integrate TFS with my Visual Studio projects, because that's not how I work.
I use the Web interface, the command-line, the shell extension, and some utilities I wrote against the API.
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How can you use TFS and not use it?
I mean
PIEBALDconsult wrote: I do not integrate TFS with my Visual Studio projects, because that's not how I work.
VS comes with TFS support build in.
How can you not use TFS in VS and use it from outside?
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shrknt35 wrote: VS comes with TFS support build in.
It has support for VB and F# too, but I don't use them.
shrknt35 wrote: How can you not use TFS in VS
There are things I do with TFS from within VS, but not integrated with with my projects.
shrknt35 wrote: use it from outside?
Commmand-line, shell extensions, API.
Besides, this thread is about Tasks, not code. Tasks I maintain with the Web interface.
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We investigated using it for our task tracking and after 15 mins of trying to make heads or tails of it I gave up.
It feels like the process of doing sprints and cards and backlogs and burndowns and everything else in the various templates that are offered have completely taken priority over actually - y'know - managing your tasks.
Anything that is harder to use than an Excel spreadsheet get's thrown in the bin for us. TFS / VSO has great potential, but not until they focus on the data (ie tasks) instead of the process (ie their overly complicated workflow and terrible UI)
cheers
Chris Maunder
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Chris Maunder wrote: Anything that is harder to use than an Excel spreadsheet get's thrown in the bin for us. TFS / VSO has great potential, but not until they focus on the data (ie tasks) instead of the process (ie their overly complicated workflow and terrible UI)
I understand the complexity involved in managing tasks, but let's agree that "no" software does it better, everyone have some advantage and disadvantages over one another.
But when you are in BIG team that's spread over 3 different CONTINENTS, you need something to manage your task and then the process eats up your time rather that the work itself.
But you know that.
You have one thing to manage you task and other thing to keep track on developers daily tasks and for his billing, and them something else for code review tracking and something for you source control.
this is even more complex than the most complex net to entangled threads.
That' where TFS Kicks in, it has everything in it. you don't even have to leave the VS. code review, tasks, work items, User stories hell it even has the track of which line was added for which code review and the reviewer with his comment, what method what changed by how many people and for what all reasons.
This makes it easy, all the info in available at one place.
That's what I like about TFS, but unfortunately I do not know what real benefits are we getting from ClearCase over TFS.
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Surely if your team is spread geographically like this you should be looking into a distributed version control system. This is one of the reasons we're looking into ditching TFS and going with Git / Github.
"There are two ways of constructing a software design: One way is to make it so simple that there are obviously no deficiencies, and the other way is to make it so complicated that there are no obvious deficiencies. The first method is far more difficult." - C.A.R. Hoare
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Dominic Burford wrote: going with Git / Github.
Wise decision.
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Ok, so TFS is not so good with huge team and different servers?
I don't know I am asking, because that's what I need to do, choose a proper source control system.
Have you ever used ClearQuest?
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If you want a DVCS tool then you should in be considering TFS. Git is by far your best option.
"There are two ways of constructing a software design: One way is to make it so simple that there are obviously no deficiencies, and the other way is to make it so complicated that there are no obvious deficiencies. The first method is far more difficult." - C.A.R. Hoare
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