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OriginalGriff wrote: "Do you want fries with that?"
Yes please, and a large chocolate shake! 
BTW: Do you use sheep dip Version 1[^] or Version 2[^] for the fries in Ystradgynlais???
Anything that is unrelated to elephants is irrelephant
Anonymous
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The problem with quotes on the internet is that you can never tell if they're genuine
Winston Churchill, 1944
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I'd just like a chance to prove that money can't make me happy.
Me, all the time
modified 29-Dec-14 6:48am.
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And I need CP-Lounge clean without messages like this 
M.D.V. 
If something has a solution... Why do we have to worry about?. If it has no solution... For what reason do we have to worry about?
Help me to understand what I'm saying, and I'll explain it better to you
Rating helpful answers is nice, but saying thanks can be even nicer.
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Please be aware that we are not your personal assistants and don't take kindly to helping those who seemingly don't understand how to use a search engine. You have been a member for a year and you should know better. It's too bad downvoting is not allowed here. Do yourself a favor and start learning to solve your own problems.
"Go forth into the source" - Neal Morse
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And I need total information about how to get Natalie Portman into bed with me. Sadly, only I have a hope of fulfilling One end of this bargain.
Alberto Brandolini: The amount of energy necessary to refute bullshit is an order of magnitude bigger than to produce it.
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How would you know? Have you ever asked her? You might be surprised...
That's the problem with you younguns nowadays; Never asserting yourself, just taking things for granted... 
Anything that is unrelated to elephants is irrelephant
Anonymous
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The problem with quotes on the internet is that you can never tell if they're genuine
Winston Churchill, 1944
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I'd just like a chance to prove that money can't make me happy.
Me, all the time
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The restraining order she has out against him prohibits him from trying this again. Apparently the whole experience was so bad and the poor girl was so shell shocked that she agreed to appear in the Star Wars prequel.
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3 tier architecture is like a corporation. At the bottom tier, you have the mailroom, and you, as the mail boy, get to spend all day "receiving events" from the outside world and sorting and lugging the mail up to the middle managers.
The middle managers are the middle tier. They're the guys that set all the rules for how things should be done. They also create shiny fictional reports of how well the company is doing, to be sent to the top tier, the C-level guys: CEO's, CTO's, CFO's, COO's, etc. Of course, these reports have to go through a mail room, but it's not the same mail room as the place where you work. You see, you work in the hot sweaty basement, without any AC, the pipes groaning and leaking disgusting fluids onto your bag lunch. The middle managers, conversely, use their overpaid, under-educated "secretaries" to deliver their rosy-colored reports to the top tier.
The top tier goes nothing but sit around, smoke cigars in mahogany decorated board rooms, and gaze out the windows of their sky scrapers (well, they do other things too, but I won't mention those lest I get some secretaries in trouble.) They know that the reports from the middle-managers are BS, but none-the-less, they prune them and feed the best to the stock holders, otherwise known as the end-user.
So, that's 3-tier architecture. As to coding, I would suggest a correspondence class so that during your 15 minute lunch breaks, you can learn some actual marketable skills. I think there's an Edward Snowden "School of Data Thieving", or you could talk to the North Korean's.
In any case, I wish you much success in your education!
Marc
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How do you get to be a top tier straight away without going through the other tiers - preferably also without having to do anything to achieve it? Please do tell, and send working codez sample straight away! 
Anything that is unrelated to elephants is irrelephant
Anonymous
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The problem with quotes on the internet is that you can never tell if they're genuine
Winston Churchill, 1944
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I'd just like a chance to prove that money can't make me happy.
Me, all the time
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Urgent!
Skipper: We'll fix it.
Alex: Fix it? How you gonna fix this?
Skipper: Grit, spit and a whole lotta duct tape.
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It's from Microsoft, very dynamic and I see your crm and raise an ARRRRRR!
modified 29-Dec-14 7:06am.
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Joan Murt wrote: I see your crm and rise an ARRRRRR!
Aye see your "ARRRRRR!" and raise the Jolly Roger!
Anything that is unrelated to elephants is irrelephant
Anonymous
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The problem with quotes on the internet is that you can never tell if they're genuine
Winston Churchill, 1944
-----
I'd just like a chance to prove that money can't make me happy.
Me, all the time
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The crew of the West Phoenix[^] rig, currently West of Shetland (I think), put together a little song to the music of a well known other song.
Shame they can't sing! (neither can I by the way!)
However, look at the toys they have, equipped music room, racing simulators, pet gimp and a moon pool.....although you don't want to swim in it
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pqO8PklvkV8[^]
Good Effort! 
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There are a few from our company in the past, but following the ice bucket challenge and a few other videos things got out of hand on the company assets and they have read the riot act with regards to social media posting, so don't expect anything soon! 
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psst......go to youtube and search "Forties Bravo".... 
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Psst! Making it smaller doesn't make it harder for web-bots to spot!
Bad command or file name. Bad, bad command! Sit! Stay! Staaaay...
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lol +5
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Most entertaining! 
However, being cognisant of offshore rig remuneration, I am pleased to announce that very few of the performers are likely to give up their day jobs.
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Hey all, first post in the lounge.
I want to get some opinions on the attitude of some of my peers while working on a project for fun...
About a month ago we decided we wanted to start a project. We decided off the bat that one of our primary goals was to finish it, seeing as how this was like many previously launched projects that never saw the light of day.
We started off by outlining our work, what needed to be done first and last, and who would be primarily 'responsible' for completing certain aspects of the project. The timeline of the project would span a month's worth of work, with the main goal being that we at least have a finished project (certain aspects were chosen to be considered 'final').
After a couple weeks, it became apparent that everyone on the team besides myself was becoming busy with real-world things; jobs, school, etc... This was understandably cutting down everyone's motivation, as any free time was spent doing things not related to the project.
I, however, still had plenty of free time to devote to the project.
So ultimately I overstepped some boundaries, as the aspects that I chose to work on required certain things to be completed by everyone else. Since they weren't able to do it and I was, I just went ahead and did it.
Surprisingly, the reaction I got wasn't positive. It was argued that I should respect the boundaries put in place and that I was treating our hobby project too much like 'a job', despite the fact that we all agreed that having a finished product was the most important goal for the project.
My intentions were not to block out my peers from having a substantial hand in the creation of the project; my intentions were to ensure we meet the deadline. It had already been mutually agreed that everyone would be credited for being involved with the project.
All of this was explained, and still I was basically told I'm a butt-head for making sure a product was completed. I would figure doing someone else's work would be met with some praise, or at least a neutral response.
I understand I have a lot to learn, so I came here to get some advice...
Was I wrong to do this?
Is this insensitive somehow?
Does anyone else think this is an issue with ego getting in the way of productivity?
Or am I really just a jerk for making sure we follow our promises that were decided from the start?
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rvIceB wrote: Or am I really just a jerk
Not in my opinion, but I think the maybe the others are. Sounds like you need to join a different team.
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I empathize with the "mixed feelings" you're having, and I think it's probably a sign (a good sign !) you have a capability for empathy, and a conscience, that you are so concerned with the reaction of your fellow collaborators, but ...
Without really understanding the explicit and implicit "social contract" that exists/existed that binds/bound your group together ... I'm not sure anyone can do anything other than crystal-ball gazing at this point.
Did this project ever have a written spec ? A time-table ? Milestones ?
Did the project have any formal leadership structure, and role assignments ?
Were meetings held where progress ... or lack of progress ... was discussed ?
Is it possible the project, from the beginning, was understood in very different ways by various team-members ?
Is it possible that different team members had a very different "stake" in the project ... personal commitment, conscious investment, dedication, sense of "ego" being "on the line" ?
Did you ever consider calling a meeting, or sending out an e-mail, to notify other group members that because of your need to have certain components working in order to complete your work ... and given the fact there was no progress on those components by group members responsible for those components ... that you were "unilaterally" going to finish those pending-components ?
My guess is that you "did the right thing," and that, in the long run, you will feel good about what you did, perhaps even wonder why you bothered to be concerned about what people who did not meet their responsibilities thought about you taking your responsibilities seriously.
That's only one interpretation of ... possibly infinite interpretations.
And, specific information about why the other project members did not finish their work becomes critical: were there any serious mitigating factors you may not be aware of ... now ?
Do remember that in the rear-view mirror of hindsight: things may seem farther away than they actually are.
cheers, Bill
«A man will be imprisoned in a room with a door that's unlocked and opens inwards ... as long as it does not occur to him to pull rather than push» Wittgenstein
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Quote: Did this project ever have a written spec ? A time-table ? Milestones ?
Sort of. We spent the first couple days jotting down what the end product should be able to do, but we were always open to expanding and including new ideas. As far as a time-table, not beyond our agreed timeframe of a month's time. I mentally had an idea of what to prioritize based on time, but nothing was written in stone.
Quote: Did the project have any formal leadership structure, and role assignments ?
No real 'leadership' position was chosen, and roles were basically just personal interests. It was a hobby project, so we had an easy going mentality to social structure...
I had the mentality of "Whatever needs done, I'll do", so I didn't opt to focus on any part in particular, but I always made sure to let someone know what I was doing at the time I was doing it.
Quote: Were meetings held where progress ... or lack of progress ... was discussed ?
Not anything formal. I made it a point to discuss the progress of the project with everyone every once in a while, but it wasn't anything set in stone. We know each other personally, but during the project we were all working in our free time.
Some of us in college, some of us working jobs.
Quote: Is it possible the project, from the beginning, was understood in very different ways by various team-members ?
I suppose that's a possibility, but it was made clear from all of us that we desparately wanted this project to simply be complete on time. Eventually, arguments on what the deadline actually was came into play as well... Possibly that lack of leadership biting us in the rear.
Quote: Is it possible that different team members had a very different "stake" in the project ... personal commitment, conscious investment, dedication, sense of "ego" being "on the line" ?
This could be a huge factor. I know for at least 2 out of the 4 of us, our motivations came from simply not wanting to waste time on a destined-to-fail project. We sort of wanted to prove to ourselves that we could hold true to a schedule and actually 'release' a product.
Quote: Did you ever consider calling a meeting, or sending out an e-mail, to notify other group members that because of your need to have certain components working in order to complete your work ... and given the fact there was no progress on those components by group members responsible for those components ... that you were "unilaterally" going to finish those pending-components ?
No, and in retrospect this would have been the best call to make. I was trying to maintain the 'laid back' work ethic while being serious about the whole ordeal. This was all more or less for fun, so I didn't want to be a hard-a$$ on everyone (I was in no position to do so anyway), but we all agreed that we wanted it to be finished.
Quote: were there any serious mitigating factors you may not be aware of ... now ?
For a couple members, yes.
One of our members works in the oil fields so he's out of town for a month or so at a time. He does however have freetime on occasion while on the job, and he did actively work on the project during that free time.
Another was finishing up college, and was working on actually moving on with his life, building a career and moving away from home. I understood this, and knew he wouldn't be very productive because of it. I didn't hold it against him or anything, what he was dealing with was much more important than our little hobby project, but I figured that if we tried to wait for him to get settled we'd miss the deadline.
Another is still in college, and is busy handling that mess. He also worked during what free time he could scrape up.
I get the feeling they have a bit of an issue being realistic (with themselves) about what they can actually produce, but maybe thats because of the lack clear expectations from our lack of leadership.
I think some kind of structure would have helped this scenario greatly, but we didn't want it to feel like a job (we have those already, you know?), and its hard to maintain both aspects.
I was trying to stress the fact that work needed to be done, but at the same time trying to be understanding about real-world issues that would be killing their productivity.
Ultimately, I decided to fill the gaps to push the project along instead of chewing people out (again, wasn't my job), and was entirely open to any changes they wanted to make including completely replacing the work I had done if they desired it.
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