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An astronomer is someone that can look at a single, still photograph and from it pull a million years of history and a million years of history yet to come - which means they're not as different from an astrologer as they'd like to think.
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MehGerbil wrote: which means they're not as different from an astrologer as they'd like to think.
Except that astronomers don't make shìt up.
"If you think it's expensive to hire a professional to do the job, wait until you hire an amateur." Red Adair.
Those who seek perfection will only find imperfection
nils illegitimus carborundum
me, me, me
me, in pictures
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mark merrens wrote: Except that astronomers don't make shìt up.
I don't believe that the astronomer can tell as much from that one photograph as he claims.
I think he did make sh*t up.
What is great about astronomy, though, is that by the time his observations can be measured the human race will be long gone.
Nice work if you can get it.
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MehGerbil wrote: I think he did make sh*t up.
Which shìt, exactly, did the author of the article associated with the picture make up? I can't see anything there that is incongruent with the observations and the speculation makes some sense though there is the caveat that further observations may reveal more. How is that the same as Jupiter is in Uranus so you will have 3 children by a one legged Brazilian?
Actually my sister has a 'degree' in astrology. None of the crap she comes out with makes any sense.
"If you think it's expensive to hire a professional to do the job, wait until you hire an amateur." Red Adair.
Those who seek perfection will only find imperfection
nils illegitimus carborundum
me, me, me
me, in pictures
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I don't think he knows what is happening there - not in the least.
He doesn't know if something is forming, or if it is decomposing, and he doesn't have the slightest idea what it may or may not become.
We're talking about a process that, on the low end, may take 100,000 years.
We've only gotten access to these sorts of pictures in the last 50 years.
At the very most he could observe, in his lifetime, less than .0005% of the process.
Can you tell me what a program does with only .0005% of the code?
Can you give me the outcome of a football game by viewing only .0005% of it?
Can you tell me my weight if I tell you .0005% of my diet?
Admire the photograph.
Tell us what you actually know.
Leave the dreamy-eyed story telling to Sagan.
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Chip and shoulder. What is the problem?
The author clearly knows a lot more than you or I do. Maybe you missed the bits where he or she says "Will this caterpillar-shaped interstellar cloud one day evolve into a butterfly-shaped nebula? No one is sure." and "The battle between gravity and light will likely take over 100,000 years to play out, but clever observations and deductions may yet yield telling clues well before that."
MehGerbil wrote: Leave the dreamy-eyed story telling to Sagan.
Now you go too far!
"If you think it's expensive to hire a professional to do the job, wait until you hire an amateur." Red Adair.
Those who seek perfection will only find imperfection
nils illegitimus carborundum
me, me, me
me, in pictures
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MehGerbil wrote: I don't think he knows what is happening there - not in the least.
And where does he claim he knows what is going to happen happening?
Therefore, no one is sure what mass the resulting star will have, and, therefore, no one knows the fate of this star.
He describes possible scenarios that can occur according to current theories which are based on a lot of other observations. Next time reader harder.
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The thing you're missing is that he doesn't make that conclusion from a single photograph. He/she and his fellow astronomers have spent lifetimes looking at thousands or even millions of photographs. They use those observations to construct theories about the phenomena they are interested in.
This is called science; it works, bitches[^]  .
Software Zen: delete this;
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If I were to cut off your finger at the 1st knuckle we'd observe healing on the first day.
If I were to cut off my finger at the 2nd knuckle we'd observe healing on the first day.
If I were to cut off Griffy's finger at the 3rd knuckle we'd observe healing on the first day.
If I were to put a minor abrasion on the very end of Pete's finger we'd observe healing on the first day.
We could photograph all four fingers.
An alien who observed those four photographs without knowing the context might assume that human fingers, when cut off at the 1st knuckle, can regenerate to their full length. Going the other way, he could reach the conclusion that a small abrasion on the end of a finger results in the loss of the entire finger.
In both cases the alien would be wrong - and he could still be wrong despite millions of photographs of similar fingers - because the difference between science and wild guesses is observing the entire process from first to last.
I'm not willing to change the definition of science just because some processes are too long to observe. Commentary on 100,000 year processes that have never been observed and never will be observed from first to last are guesswork - plain and simple.
We're limited.
Deal with it.
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MehGerbil wrote: We're limited.
"... and that is why you fail."
- Yoda
Software Zen: delete this;
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My theory is that photograph is of a very large Lite Bright[^].
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MehGerbil wrote: because the difference between science and wild guesses is observing the entire
process from first to last.
The difference between science and wild guess is that science is the best guess.
Science is not about absolute truth, it's about providing useful answers, the best to our current knowledge and abilities. People knew for a long time that Newton didn't get all the things right, and even today when we have much better theories we continue to use Newton's theories because they are damn useful and give good enough answers to everyday problems. That's science.
Just because we are not sure whether something is 100% accurate, or even if we know it is not the case, is not reason to declare it as non-science. It's a reason to explore more, not to reject stuff.
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Looks pretty eerie! 
Nice post, keep em coming!
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"The owner of the first manufactured model of the CataCombo Sound System is Fredrik Hjelmquist. He allows strangers to add tracks to his playlist 'Pause 4-ever' " [^].
This piece of kit gives me an idea for a story: an ex-wife who is a hacker discovers her ex-husband (they had the "bitter" flavor divorce) has purchased this system, and now "uses" it. She hacks into it, and sets it to play Karen Carpenter singing "We've Only Just Begun" in an endless-loop: the song her ex hated the most because, when he was kidnapped by FARC rebels in Columbia, they played that song over-and-over into the hidden bunker where the captives were kept in order to keep them confused, and subdued, by sensory overload, and reduce the cocaine rations for the hostages.
Perhaps I can tie the story into the "real events" of Operation Jaque in 2008: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Jaque[^].
But, naturally, the story will not stop there: something unexpected must happen ... perhaps supernatural ... next. Or perhaps the story could be told in the form of a dialogue between two earth-worms who take a break from eating dirt near the system.
yours, Bill
Google CEO, Erich Schmidt: "I keep asking for a product called Serendipity. This product would have access to everything ever written or recorded, know everything the user ever worked on and saved to his or her personal hard drive, and know a whole lot about the user's tastes, friends and predilections." 2004, USA Today interview
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It is no sillier than giving the dead fine walnut polished caskets with brass handles and silk bedding.
We should do the smart thing and bury 'em naked.
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My mother asked for a cardboard coffin and a cremation, so that was what we arranged. Annoyingly, a cardboard coffin both looks much worse than a wooden one, and costs more...
This message is manufactured from fully recyclable noughts and ones. To recycle this message, please separate into two tidy piles, and take them to your nearest local recycling centre.
Please note that in some areas noughts are always replaced with zeros by law, and many facilities cannot recycle zeroes - in this case, please bury them in your back garden and water frequently.
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Hi MehG,
I'm in your camp on this one, and agree that all the trappings are meaningless, inherently. Although I recognize that rituals like funerals, all over the world, in different cultures, have certain "forms," and they are meant (as is marriage) for the families, and communities, of the nominal protagonists (the deceased, or those doomed to being married). Making public rituals also acts of conspicuous display of wealth, and consumption, is also as human as warfare.
I've already made arrangement$ for being barbecued until turned to ash with a Thai Wat (Buddhist Temple); they do a fine cremation ceremony, even using their budget plan: your corpse is chanted over quite a bit, which can be soothing to mourners (if you have any); various rituals are performed; and, nine Monks are given new robes by your friends or relatives (if you have any), just before they light the after-burners.
I read a few years ago that a Korean company had found a way to turn human ashes into kind of hard beads, using high-temperatures, and I kind of like the idea of that: you could arrange for post-mortem mailings of beads to people you loved, and people you hated, which I think would be very cool.
bill
Google CEO, Erich Schmidt: "I keep asking for a product called Serendipity. This product would have access to everything ever written or recorded, know everything the user ever worked on and saved to his or her personal hard drive, and know a whole lot about the user's tastes, friends and predilections." 2004, USA Today interview
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If no one is there that can listen to it is it really playing?
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I think I'd like one of those when I go, but rather than paying for a Spotify account, just bury me with an endless loop recording of me yelling, "Get me out of here!!!" at random intervals.
Will Rogers never met me.
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Hurried past the wierdest bloke in the street the other day. He introduced himself as Nathan, and claimed to be the brother of the bloke who co-wrote the "Do they know it's Chrismas" for Band Aid in the 80s. It got really weird when he asked me to pay money for to have, as he put it "kinky sex with his Hoover".
Well, it turns out Nat Ure ab-whores a vacuum.
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Am I the only one wondering why sex with an appliance always has to be kinky?
Whatever the case, the joke works way too hard to get where it's going.
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Odd days happen every other day for me, mostly.
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And me, even.
I wanna be a eunuchs developer! Pass me a bread knife!
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