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pwasser wrote: Sounds like politics to me - belongs elsewhere.
Up against the wall with the politicians, maybe?
I wanna be a eunuchs developer! Pass me a bread knife!
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Freedom of speech is good - but it's not quite that simple.
Peter Wasser
Art is making something out of nothing and selling it.
Frank Zappa
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Did you ever see "The Captain's Paradise", especially the last scene?
Dave.
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Nope, but Google reveals it's an Alec Guinness movie that I haven't seen, so I shall certainly look it up.
I wanna be a eunuchs developer! Pass me a bread knife!
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When you find it and see it, tell me what you think of that last scene (it is the same scene as the first scene, only that it completes the story).
Dave.
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Rob Philpott wrote: So Edward Snowdon's leaking of classified documents poses a very real tangible risks of terrorism in the UK and abroad.
Sorry, but I don't follow.
How can revealing that our government, which we elected to protect us, is treating us all like criminals be construed as helping ter'r'rists?
The 15 ter'r'rists in the world don't need that kind of help; they can do the job without it.
What we need is a truly democratic option to elect a government that will not allow honest people to be treated like criminals, but it's not in the government's interest to give us that.
I wanna be a eunuchs developer! Pass me a bread knife!
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Agreed.
It's just like Identity cards: just how the heck would they have prevented terrorism? Would suicide bombers be thwarted because they didn't have one?
The security services of both countries seem to be trying to take over, and in the name of freedom removing what little freedoms people had left...
The only instant messaging I do involves my middle finger.
English doesn't borrow from other languages.
English follows other languages down dark alleys, knocks them over and goes through their pockets for loose grammar.
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Next, they'll be telling us that we have to invade North Africa because we need more "living room".
I wanna be a eunuchs developer! Pass me a bread knife!
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Mark_Wallace wrote: The 15 ter'r'rists in the world
That can't be true.
The new head of MI5 who has told us how dangerous Snowdon's leaking is for the country also told us last week that there are thousands of Islamist extremists in the UK thinking of attacking the British public.
“I believe that there is an equality to all humanity. We all suck.” Bill Hicks
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ChrisElston wrote: The new head of MI5 who has told us how dangerous Snowdon's leaking is for the country also told us last week that there are thousands of Islamist extremists in the UK thinking of attacking the British public.
Did they say it on the Internet?
If they didn't say it on the Internet, it can't be true.
I wanna be a eunuchs developer! Pass me a bread knife!
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And we need pictures of them, or it didn't happen!
The only instant messaging I do involves my middle finger.
English doesn't borrow from other languages.
English follows other languages down dark alleys, knocks them over and goes through their pockets for loose grammar.
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If the leaks showed anything, it's that your govt is in fact spying on all of you. And also on all of us (ie the rest of Europe), which isn't really necessary, we're already spied on by own respective secret services.
It was already known, really. The leaks just confirmed it, and showed the scope to be bigger than most people expected.
And if you're a terrorist, you have to assume that you're being spied on with special priority - proper cloak and dagger stuff, not just a phone/internet tap.
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My view is anything you do on or say can come back to bite you. I know of a guy who filled in a form at Freshers Week because of a cute girl was talking to him, did nothing more than that. Later he was refused a work Visa for the states. It was for the Communist Party! Equally Snowden was a Sys Admin for a company that did work for the NSA wasn't he, he should have said something and excused himself from the project. I am of the opinion if you are trusted with something you should do it to the best of your abilities and not leak like a cracked vase, my two penny worth?? To quote my mum "he showed a lack of breeding by leaking all that information"
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Completely disagree, if you discover anyone is up to something immoral or illegal then it is your duty to tell people.
Ignoring it is just one step away from "I was just obeying orders".
“I believe that there is an equality to all humanity. We all suck.” Bill Hicks
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Spot on.
In fact, it is your legal duty, so he could have been tried as an accomplice for not whistle-blowing.
I wanna be a eunuchs developer! Pass me a bread knife!
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Point, (rather good point  )but still there is a problem with how the data is managed if a civilian can get to all that data and perform a leak like he did, remember Peter Wrights "Spy Catcher" and the fuss that caused...
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glennPattonWork wrote: there is a problem with how the data is managed
As I see it, without just cause such data should not exist, so nor should the problem.
I am not a criminal, nor am I implicated in any crimes, so no governments -- especially foreign governments, and more especially if they call themselves democratic -- have the right to retrieve such information about me nor store it.
I wanna be a eunuchs developer! Pass me a bread knife!
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Two problems, the ability to collect data just because you can will be done if not by the government "for security" then by another agency "for marketing", in this day and age you can't escape it, to borrow and mangle a quote "if you leave it, they will find it". I know the first step to freedom is constant vigilance (paranoia?), my point was Snowden broke the trust he was given. Personally I don't know if he said to someone higher "This is wrong", he darn (KSS) well should have!
I don't really think the data should have been collected or stored without notice. I just can't help feeling like I'm like I'm in "Enemy of the State", when I first saw the film my thinking was how can they manage that much data from what I have heard it only gets looked at when you raise there attention (in the same way post and telephone calls were in the pre-00's). I just hope it isn't used rashly.
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I take it you are aware of the NSA and how members of the NSA have been spying on their partners and 'rivals' etc.
The whole thing is open to abuse which is why so many of us are not happy with our loss of confidentiality.
“That which can be asserted without evidence, can be dismissed without evidence.”
― Christopher Hitchens
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According to the material Snowdon released, the government WAS spying on ordinary people, with absolutely no possible justification for that spying. In the United States, at least, what the US government was doing was illegal.
"Those who would give up essential liberties for the sake of a little temporary security deserve neither liberty nor security." - Benjamin Franklin
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Quite sad to see how governments are quite successfully convincing people to give up their privacy for a little bit of security from terrorism, just with the reasoning "You've got nothing to hide, so it doesn't affect you"...
There are still so many who just don't care to be spied upon. Those who are criticizing the government are still just a minority.
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ABC.
There, I feel better. The idea one does not live in blissful ignorance is blissful ignorance.
Leakers, Leaks, Spying => SoapBox.
bill
Google CEO, Erich Schmidt: "I keep asking for a product called Serendipity. This product would have access to everything ever written or recorded, know everything the user ever worked on and saved to his or her personal hard drive, and know a whole lot about the user's tastes, friends and predilections." 2004, USA Today interview
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Rob Philpott wrote: But as you might expect HYS is full of paranoid idiots who think the government
is spying on them and their stupid lives and their porn habits
The point that is missed here, is that in the US the Fourth Amendment to the United States Constitution. Clearly states
Individuals are protected “in their persons, houses, papers and effects” from unreasonable searches. If the police—agents of the executive branch—wish to search a home or other place for evidence of a crime, they must first convince a judge—the judicial branch—that there is enough evidence to obtain a search warrant. The court must decide if “probable cause” exists to issue a warrant, and the warrant must list the place to be searched and the evidence police believe they will find.
What Snodens documents seem to indicate is that the NSA is car blanche conducing searches without a warrant. Including staffers within the NSA spying on people they know.
Common sense is admitting there is cause and effect and that you can exert some control over what you understand.
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