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I've a relatively new developer working on modifying an old project.
He has called me over to his office every day this week so that he may ask for advice.
I give this same advice every time:
Divide things up into discrete classes/tables/etc because in the long run you'll find a clear division of responsibilities much easier to manage then some goobered up, over-complicated mess.
I then get an argument on how that would be a great deal of work.
It took me a long time to learn that creating a discrete class for a function is actually the route that is much less work in the long run than trying to ball everything up into some wonder-class that does everything. I don't care if someone wants to do it a different way - the part that makes me want to scream is that after I give the advice I get an argument and an insistence that I bless the mess that he is creating. My advice will be the same tomorrow as it is today - please leave me alone.
It is just a little frustrating is all.
modified 14-Nov-13 9:45am.
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It wouldn't hurt to give an example, work together to start taking out a small piece, or maybe create some class outlines (just names and function declarations without the guts of the code).
If this kids education was anything like mine, it will take the investment of someone else to teach him how to code properly. I get lots of help from other folks, and when I cannot understand how to do what they say, I go away, try, and then come ask again. Usually a 15 minute sit down at the keys can clear up a lot of confusion.
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I've tried several times but there is a resistance to my efforts; hence, the frustration.
I know that it took me several years to really appreciate the importance of some of these things.
Still gets frustrating though.
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"He has called me over to her office" wut?
"No. Do it right."
Sounds like one of those newly graduated programmers with only child syndrome thinking they know something, with a pathological aversion to being told they're wrong.
Screw him. Yell a couple times. Make a comment about big boy pants and 'real work'.
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I'm thinking of changing professions.
I may get into something less frustrating like being a security screener at an airport.
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Bomb squad maybe?
I've been putting together a little machine shop and woodworking shop in my basement (being single has its advantages) for the express purpose of getting the HELL away from programming as a profession.
Sure I'll make almost no money. But maybe I'll stop yelling mock arguments to coworkers that aren't there while I walk down the street alone.
These people are nuts.
Thank God I have this bluetooth headset I don't bother pairing with my phone. People would think I was nuts otherwise.
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That is interesting - I really hope it works out for you.
I find myself wanting to get out of programming because I don't feel like it is a 'craft' in that by the time one learns a language/IDE/etc. it gets tossed out for some new thing. While there are 'craft' like components to it - lessons hard learned and all that - I feel as if the material is too transitional and inconsequential for my liking.
In short, I think a well made end table has more meaning than what I do.
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I love programming. It just seems that in no programming job in the last 25+ years have I actually been allowed to really DO it.
And as much as I love Bob Martin and the Agilistas I draw the line at his assertion that programming is a craft. I do appreciate his drive to bring some kind of professional standards to what we do. But his choice of nomenclature is half a bubble off plumb.
I can make an end grain butcher block cutting board that's 2" thick and never doubt that I've made something.
Twiddling bits? Meh. Notsomuch.
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The best job I ever had was designing, building, programming and maintaining automated production machinery, and it took me a while to understand why.
It was the fact that I could be creative, even pushing my nose into the product design process in order that the finished article could be assembled, tested and packaged reliably and quickly. I could 'play' with things like automated vision systems, interfaces to control circuits, pneumatics, electrical and electronic actuators etc. as well as the metalwork and fabrication.
I loved that job and getting up in the morning to do it was no chore at all.
Ultimately I changed jobs, chasing more money, and ended up doing some development work in larger IT systems but found the lack of creativity, control over the finished product and beaurocracy soul-destroying.
Don't get me wrong, I understand that these aren't easy jobs and someone needs to do them and do them well for big IT infrastructures to work, it just isn't for me, I need to see an end product, to be able to say 'I did that'.
Now I'm even further away from the creative side, in project management and all I can say is it pays well... wonder if I've got enough space in the outbuildings for a workshop?
Andy B
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Head over to lumberjocks.com and watch youtube videos by Izzy Swan.
You'll be glad you did. Izzy's doing a great series on "starting a workshop with $50." he's an awesomely creative furniture builder and nuttier than squirrel droppings.
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There's probably a goobered up, over-complicated mess, somewhere in that old project.
Make him work on that.
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Consider yourself lucky - A Project Management that thinks this way is far worse to deal with.
Team: We need to refactor the code to guarantee that future release won't become a PITA.
Management: Screw you, just add the new features.
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I know what you need, some motivation[^].
You're welcome.
speramus in juniperus
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Everyone knows one[^]I have this one saved away
Send lawyers, guns and money
modified 14-Nov-13 15:32pm.
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Is he a CPian? If so, well played. 
"Go forth into the source" - Neal Morse
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Experience has taught me that any developer who has a primary complaint of that it "would be a great deal of work" is the wrong type of developer for any of my teams.
Not understanding the work? Sure, they need mentoring. Not knowing how to do it? They need guidance.
Belly aching about how hard it will be? I've heard it many times. The end result will be sloppy, inefficient, and riddled with bugs. These folks are in the wrong field, in my opinion. We do this not because it's easy, but because it's hard.
Hire an autodidact; they don't bellyache about how hard it will be. They'll light up when you tell them it's a challenge.
"Things don't happen for a reason; things just happen, and then we reason them." - Joe Chizmas
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Quote: wonder-class
It's called that because you end up wondering what all the code does!
- I would love to change the world, but they won’t give me the source code.
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Don't give advice to a programmer unless you are their boss. Only give mild suggestions. Must programmers have already decided how they are going to do something and just want validation. I am sick an tired of hearing the "its too much work/time to do it right I just need to do it fast"
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Per Albert Einstein:
"Insanity: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results."
But I do have one question - at this point, to which of you does this appertain?
| "The difference between genius and stupidity is that genius has its limits." - Albert Einstein | | "As far as we know, our computer has never had an undetected error." - Weisert | | "If you are searching for perfection in others, then you seek disappointment. If you are seek perfection in yourself, then you will find failure." - Balboos HaGadol Mar 2010 |
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MehGerbil wrote: creating a discrete class for a function
You mean "one function, one class"?
Bastard Programmer from Hell 
If you can't read my code, try converting it here[^]
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I got the "that will be a lot of work" statement from a junior dev just the other day. The response was not pretty, and yeah this guy think he knows everything and is highly resistive to learning.
Never underestimate the power of human stupidity
RAH
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The work is complicated by nature.
Being surprised by that nature of the work, or complaining about it, is just silly.
There is a reason why programmers earn more than a typical data entry person.
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My car with its crumpled rear end gets picked up tomorrow to see if it is fixable.
Just had a phone call from a car hire company to sort out my courtesy car.
I told them I didn't have that on my policy.
He explained that since I am zero percent to blame and the other driver was properly insured I get a courtesy car as they will recover the costs from her.
So in the morning once my car has gone they're coming to pick me up to take me to the car.
Things have been going unexpectedly well since the accident. Not only did we get lucky with the warrantee on the patio door, but yesterday my wife's eleven year old car flew through its MOT.
The collision does seem to have realigned the universe quite nicely, now if only the pain would do one.
“I believe that there is an equality to all humanity. We all suck.” Bill Hicks
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They'll find 1 kilo of Brazilian cocaine in your car while they're fixing it.
This time tomorrow night you'll be in a prison cell trying to convince your cellmates that a full body cavity search isn't necessary.
Glad I could help.
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 Nature "balance" ? Elephant that !
~RaGE();
I think words like 'destiny' are a way of trying to find order where none exists. - Christian Graus
Do not feed the troll ! - Common proverb
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