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Due to a recent discussion regarding the benefits of a speedy development system, I made an impulse buy a few days ago and bought a Lenovo desktop system (12GB RAM/1TB HDD/AMD A12-9800 3.8GHz/dual monitor support/Win10 Home) to replace my ancient 9 y/o (4GB RAM/480 GB SSD + 1 TB HDD/AMD Phenom 3800?/etc./Win10 Pro (upgraded from 7 but with a clean install))
I also purchased a 480GB SSD to with intent to replace the HDD. I also intend to upgrade the OS to 10 Pro. I'll be unboxing it later, after hours, to get it hooked up and start the process of getting it development ready. I have never bought Lenovo, and really don't have an idea of how much crapware they preinstall, but if it's anything like HP  , I think I'd rather do a clean OS install.
What I'm aiming for is spending the least amount of money (upgrade to 10 pro instead of just doing it the easy way by getting a new license and starting with the blank SSD) while spending the least amount of time to do it.
One route I'm thinking is just to get the thing online and purchase the upgrade license directly...hopefully it's less than the full version. Once it upgrades, I can then pop in the new SSD and the Win 10 installation media and do a clean install using the upgrade key.
Should this work, or is there a better/easier way? Thanks! 
BTW, with the current ratio of SSD price per GB, I'm surprised at the lack of SSDs available in off the shelf units...one other more expensive (i7) tower had one but it was only 128GB. 
Edit: I've just opened the box, then opened the box and am disappointed to see that there are only two sata/mb connectors.  ...and no apparent way to mount the SSD either...this may make it difficult to run 3 internal sata devices. 
Edit 2: Everything went extremely smooth and I'm now looking at a clean and fresh Win10 Pro system running from the new SSD! The missus will be out of town next week so I'll be able to start loading software. One of the first things I need to do is to find a ps/2 to usb connector so I can plug up my trusty old HP keyboard. (came with my first windows system in '98)
"Go forth into the source" - Neal Morse
modified 28-Jan-18 17:56pm.
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Can't advise on the Windows 10 Pro upgrade issue, but when installing VS2017 and opting for the D: drive to my surprise the bulk was still installed on the C: drive 
So be careful what options you select on installing VS2017, it might be best to start with a minimal installation.
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That confirms my suspicions! A clean install (at some point) it is then! Thanks! 
"Go forth into the source" - Neal Morse
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mounting ssd without a bay: because they are non moving a couple of velcro tabs will do the job. (Consider first if there is a DVD drive rip that out and mount an SSD or two there.)
Only 2 SATA ports? that sucks, even most ITX-mini boards usually have 4. That manufacturer was really being cheap.
Does it have USB 3.1? - supposed to be almost as fast (could put SSD #3 in an external enclosure or if there's an extra internal USB 3.1 port connect it there and [velcro] mount internally.
I've started thinking on my own next build for end of this year, I prefer buy and build individual config (the shop does most of the actual build - tricky stuff like installing the CPU). The plan: as tiny as possible without sacrificing too much . Figure by year end Intel will be fixed and ASUS will have more small mobos with USB 3.1 - currently they have only 1 with 3.1.
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I have an extra SSD just sitting on the floor of the box - not even any Velcro. As you say, nothing's moving....
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User: Technical term used by developers. See Idiot.
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Lopatir wrote: a couple of velcro tabs will do the job
(or a couple of zip ties) That takes care of the mounting, but still have the issue of only 2 sata/mb connections. I've found a splitter (no slot) that should do and in the meantime can get by on just the SSD and DVD drives...or I can pull the eSATA card from the current rig...anyway, there are options.
"Go forth into the source" - Neal Morse
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Hello kmoorevs,
Oh dear....first off close the box and all take it back to the store, get your money back and buy the components from a real computer store. You will get motherboard (like 10 SATA, 8 external USB -including full USB3.1, etc.) RAM, video, etc as exactly suits your needs. If you "dicker" you could probably get W10 Pro included. I don't know where you are but in Toronto, Canada Computers are the tops and New Zealand PBTech.
Lenova, HP, Acer, etc. just give you the least hardware for the most amount of money. (Unless you got some amazing clearance deal.)
What most hardware geeks do is use the SSD for OS and Programs and a TB+ HD for storage so why the large SSD?
As an example I got a AMD RyZen 1600X CPU, Gigabyte GA-AX370-Gaming K3 Motherboard, Kingston HyperX Fury 8GB (2 X 4GB) DDR4 2400MHz RAM for $780 New Zealand and a Apacer Armor AS681, 240GB 2.5 inch 7mm SATAIII SSD for $86.25 and that includes taxes and delivery. I used my old case, power supply, video card and 3TB "spinning" drive.
I don't edit video, Photoshop, etc. so 8GB is totally fine. Very rarely does memory usage go over 50%.
If you need further help Dude just ask. Glad to help. I've been doing this sort of stuff for over 34 years. What you have done pains me greatly. <grin>
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When you buy a commodity computer (how I refer to Dell, HP, Lenovo, etc), you really have no idea what you're going to get. I've been building my own computers since about 1983. Doing that guarantees that I am in complete control of what goes in the box in terms of both hardware and software. The only corners that are cut are the ones I deem as appropriate.
Some guidelines:
Case - full tower with support for both front and rear 120mm fan
Power supply - name-brand that's large enough to power your machine. Minimum 500w. If you have a crapload of SATA devices, be prepared to get some molex-to-sata power adapters. They're cheap, but you never seem to have one when you need it.
Motherboard - support for at least 32gb RAM, at least 6 SATA connections, and expansion slots. Most motherboards come with on-board video, copious USB3 ports, ethernet, and sound.
Video - unless you're a gamer or need multi-monitor support, you should be able to get away with the motherboard's on-board video. Otherwise, a multi-monitor-capable video card is cheap nowadays. Also, purchase a few extra sata data cables. Motherboards come with one or two, but it's nice to have some spares laying around for when you expand.
CPU - your choice of motherboard determines what type of CPU you get, but get one with at least 4 cores and at least 3ghz speed.
RAM - Again, the motherboard determines the type of RAM you get, but get at least 16gb of it. Most RAM kits come with 2 sticks of RAM, and most motherboards prefer two sticks at a time. When I increase my RAM, I try to use the same brand/type/spec sticks in every slot to avoid potential problems. There shouldn't be any, but I hate having to do stuff twice.
UPS - GET A BIG UPS. All 12 of mine of mine are at least 1500ma.
I was going to label the components listed above as the most critical not to cheap out on, but the truth of the matter is, they're ALL critical. One crappy part in an otherwise well-built box could at the very least cause endless problems, and at the very worst, destroy the whole thing. I've seen cheap power supplies actually catch a computer on fire, and motherboards destroy CPUs AND RAM with incorrect voltages. So in essence - DUE DILIGENCE, RESEARCH, AND DON'T CHEAP OUT are your goals in building your own box. If you're not up for that, and instead you buy a commodity box and simply hope for the best, I will show no pity.
".45 ACP - because shooting twice is just silly" - JSOP, 2010
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You can never have too much ammo - unless you're swimming, or on fire. - JSOP, 2010
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When you pry the gun from my cold dead hands, be careful - the barrel will be very hot. - JSOP, 2013
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Agree with the comment on branded computers. Last time I most liked Dell because they were generous with space/connections for expansion and compatibility (which is why avoided compaq/hp) - built quite a few home systems off 2nd hand ebay Dells, not any more.
These days for me too it's all custom - on ASUS mobo's (still rated best quality & reasonable support).
Only difference [to John] is I go for smallest case footprint possible (internal PSU only)... and today's mobo's give you that choice (another reason to go custom) - same gear inside, different [personal choice] outside.
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Thanks JSOP, Mostly agree with everything you said, though my hardware requirements aren't as great as yours. (as noted, my current workhorse is over 8 y/o with 4GB RAM and still gets the job done quite well!) This marks the first time since I started developing in '98 that I have bought a commodity box for work. (not counting laptops) Over that time including the current one, I have put together at least 4 development systems and a few servers.
That said, the new off-the-shelf system, with a few mods should be more than adequate. One nice thing I'm noticing is how quiet the thing is compared to the one it will replace. 
"Go forth into the source" - Neal Morse
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I know the feeling. When I bought my current rig 3 years ago, I took out the HDD of the old rig and bought a $10 thing that allowed that HDD to be like an external drive. And since the new rig had Windows 8  , I had to use a Linux boot via stick to do a repartition  on it to put on Windows 7 (which I had downloaded a few years back as a backup to that old system. Somehow, it worked!  It is a very long day though to get everything installed!
My SOP on my rig is to have some top level directories for my stuff (with underscores for the first characters, so as to stand out in the list), including the install packages for any applications. This makes backups rather simple as all I need to do is make sure that those directories are the same on the backup drives. However, there is one important directory that is deep in the directory tree that I must be careful to extract - the Firefox profile in the Roaming directory.
I also had a problem once on that old system with installing Visual Studio and some other quirky behavior, so I had to do a complete rebuild without removing the drive, but unfortunately, I had forgotten to save the Firefox profile.  Doing the Format Drive operation felt a bit like Indiana Jones taking the step over the gorge to get to the Holy Grail.
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kmoorevs wrote: BTW, with the current ratio of SSD price per GB, I'm surprised at the lack of SSDs available in off the shelf units...one other more expensive (i7) tower had one but it was only 128GB. 
Because a large portion of the populace buying pre-build systems are clueless enough that they only understand bigger numbers and lower prices. Spinning rust gives more of both. The segment that is clued in enough to know better are most likely to build their own systems. People who know enough to prefer a medium SSD to a big HDD but who don't want to build their own system are stuck in the middle. You could get that sort of system from a boutique builder using DIY components; but they can't compete with huge OEMs on pricing. So again you're elephanted in the middle.
And with the way the current cryptomining buzz has made GPUs at anything approaching retail prices almost impossible to buy the group being screwed is larger than normal because buying pre-build from an OEM that has a direct line of supply to the GPU makers is one of the only ways to avoid getting gouged on the card these days.
Did you ever see history portrayed as an old man with a wise brow and pulseless heart, weighing all things in the balance of reason?
Is not rather the genius of history like an eternal, imploring maiden, full of fire, with a burning heart and flaming soul, humanly warm and humanly beautiful?
--Zachris Topelius
Training a telescope on one’s own belly button will only reveal lint. You like that? You go right on staring at it. I prefer looking at galaxies.
-- Sarah Hoyt
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"AI involves machines that can perform tasks that are characteristic of human intelligence."
What if it created by an Idiot human? Is that mean AI = Artificial Idiot?
Bryian Tan
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Why do you need AI if humans can do the job?
Caveat Emptor.
"Progress doesn't come from early risers – progress is made by lazy men looking for easier ways to do things." Lazarus Long
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if humans are so smart why do they need a machine to ... oh wait! you want them to <nsfw>?
1. why in the heck would they want a machine to do that!?
2. there's already way too many humans around anyway, why the hell make it worse by adding more?
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Is there a Jehovah's Witness Protection Program?
Bad command or file name. Bad, bad command! Sit! Stay! Staaaay...
AntiTwitter: @DalekDave is now a follower!
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I wish you had asked this Quaker.
... such stuff as dreams are made on
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Everyone is born right handed. Only the strongest overcome it.
Fight for left-handed rights and hand equality.
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well some get right to it, others are simply left out.
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Well, that depends, while some Hindu, other's don't.
Contingent upon an Israelite being a lamp made in Jerusalem.
As much so as "Is a Seventh Day Adventist" someone who holds parties on Saturdays?
(They threw my coat out and told me to go get it).
| Ravings en masse^ |
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| "The difference between genius and stupidity is that genius has its limits." - Albert Einstein | | "If you are searching for perfection in others, then you seek disappointment. If you are seek perfection in yourself, then you will find failure." - Balboos HaGadol Mar 2010 |
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I don't know or care. But I bought 20 acres last year to make a home for myself, and I'm going in with some signage. First off, I'm calling the lot, 'Nacho Place' because a lot of folks seem to have trouble understanding 'Private Property - No Trespassing.' A second sign over the entrance will read, 'Clothing Optional.' That should give them pause... 
Will Rogers never met me.
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