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John Cardinal wrote: the posted idea of how to litigously extract the most money from a commercial organization
Link?
You may be right
I may be crazy
-- Billy Joel --
Within you lies the power for good, use it!!!
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If CP should allow or not article with license is one thing, but Andrew case is a real case and it has a "no commercial" license, which he could have done for X reason like remove responsibility from a derivate work, just because he doesn't want to his code been use to make profit instead to share knowledge or as you said with the intention of catch up somebody using it to make profiy and sue him.
In any case those are criminal stealing and making profit from the work from another people, they did the crime, and what… the author can’t do anything to avoid that? Those people KNEW what they were doing and still keep selling it, because they trust noone will do anything.
From my point of view if they committed a crime knowing about it, then they should expect the worst of the punishment.
It is not the same kill a person by accident than intentionally murder someone, justice will apply different punishment for that. Andrew case is compared to a murdering case and not a car accident.
For that reason I tell this action should be punished.
What is your point of view? Just let them make profit and run away?
--
If you think the chess rules are not fair, first beat Anand, Kasparov and Karpov then you can change them.
Moral is, don't question the work of others if you don't know the reason why they did it.
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I am a commercial developer, when I post an article here I fully post it with the expectation it can be put to any use whatsoever. I never post code that I feel is something that would give a competitor an advantage over my own software.
I could care less what people do with it, my only motivation for posting an article is to give back to a site which helped me so much.
That being said with the current ambiguity that is being allowed to happen here I don't see myself taking advantage of or posting new articles to this site. Even visiting it for that matter if this isn't cleared up quickly one way or the other.
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John Cardinal wrote: A member posted in the lounge advocating that another member (who had their sample application that accompanies their article ripped off and sold for profit) should wait until the company that "stole" their code starts making a lot of money then sue them for damages.
IANAL, but I believe this falls under cherry-picking in that you cannot wait to enforce copyright or trademarks just because you may gain less money than if you wait for a bigger windfall. Doing so can get your copyright or trademark revoked because it can be viewed as non-enforcement of your copyright/trademark. (It is why larger companies go after even "the little guy" when it comes to infringement - they usually have to, or they may risk loosing in the long run.)
Anyway, the act of putting a license on a submission clearly spells out what can and cannot be done with it, it can grant commercial use, deny commercial use, or grant it with appropriate crediting of the original source. I do believe that there should be a default license that is granted to the reader in the absence of one provided by the author (and that is what we have already).
However, I am unclear as to how this is damaging to CP's reputation - I have not seen nor heard anything along those lines. Do you have some links we could see that demonstrate this?
Peace!
-=- James Please rate this message - let me know if I helped or not!<HR>If you think it costs a lot to do it right, just wait until you find out how much it costs to do it wrong!
Avoid driving a vehicle taller than you and remember that Professional Driver on Closed Course does not mean your Dumb Ass on a Public Road!
See DeleteFXPFiles
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I agree that the relevant license should be made more visible - perhaps by having a combo box in the header info area, where the author can select "GPL, LGPL, Apache, unrestricted, other, etc.". Then a view filter (or search filter) would be simple to implement.
It would also be handy for authors if the CP article submission wizard would include links to relevant licenses and what they mean.
But what if I wanted to use some license-restricted code that was presented in an article, by contacting author and making some arrangement? I would not want CP to disallow this, or refuse to publish the article. In fact, the current policy (which has existed from beginning) is to allow its members to interact as they want. This has certainly benefited me, and in some cases also the author, when I recommend their product to my clients.
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I think you're missing the point, there should be no license allowed whatsoever, it's just plain crazy.
This has nothing to do with disallowing members to contact each other, I don't know where you get that idea from.
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I vote that we don't accept any "licensed" code at all.
"Why don't you tie a kerosene-soaked rag around your ankles so the ants won't climb up and eat your candy ass..." - Dale Earnhardt, 1997
-----
"...the staggering layers of obscenity in your statement make it a work of art on so many levels." - Jason Jystad, 10/26/2001
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The footer shows this message in CP
Article content copyright <authorname>, 2007<br />
everything else Copyright © CodeProject, 1999-2006
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I don't understand how this is relevant to what I posted about, perhaps you can clarify.
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John,
It was an example of how CodeProject is currently showing and/or distinguishing between how CP shows article and site copyright.
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Copyrighting and licensing are two separate issues (though they compliment one another). Copyright addresses ownership. Licensing addresses use.
Jeff
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my views
1-> code project is for sharing knowledge and not for advertising so the code posted here with the idea of
posting code and restricting it commercially is just advertising
2-> as in Andrews case a company used his dlls as it is removing all copyright notices i think this is morally
incorrect (legal aspect i don't know much)
my suggestion which i gave once before that if any author want to advertise his code CP should provide a
platform for them and take charges for overriding licenses (ie commercially restricted articles should pay CP
some thing in cash also along with code and article )
cause CP is a really very big platform and people are advertising free of cost some of them just ruin the
environment in message posts also (you know him/them)
It is Good to be Important but!
it is more Important to be Good
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Amar Chaudhary wrote: 1-> code project is for sharing knowledge and not for advertising so the code posted here with the idea of
posting code and restricting it commercially is just advertising
Restricting its commercial use is not advertising, no one is buying anything. Putting something to the effect of you must contact me to purchase a license for commercial use is. However, I have yet to encounter an article that contains copy like that.
Peace!
-=- James Please rate this message - let me know if I helped or not!<HR>If you think it costs a lot to do it right, just wait until you find out how much it costs to do it wrong!
Avoid driving a vehicle taller than you and remember that Professional Driver on Closed Course does not mean your Dumb Ass on a Public Road!
See DeleteFXPFiles
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James R. Twine wrote: Restricting its commercial use is not advertising, no one is buying anything. Putting something to the effect of you must contact me to purchase a license for commercial use is. However, I have yet to encounter an article that contains copy like that.
There's at least one RS232 article here that's licensed free for noncomercial use. The code is available for commercial license from the company that wrote it for a few hundred bucks.
--
Rules of thumb should not be taken for the whole hand.
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dan neely wrote: There's at least one RS232 article here that's licensed free for noncomercial use. The code is available for commercial license from the company that wrote it for a few hundred bucks.
That is just an example of what I said - what is the point here? Or was that the point, just to show an examples of what I meant?
-- modified at 14:42 Friday 5th January, 2007
Never mind - the "I have yet to see an article..." part just kicked in within my brain...  
Peace!
-=- James Please rate this message - let me know if I helped or not!<HR>If you think it costs a lot to do it right, just wait until you find out how much it costs to do it wrong!
Avoid driving a vehicle taller than you and remember that Professional Driver on Closed Course does not mean your Dumb Ass on a Public Road!
See DeleteFXPFiles
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I would never attempt to attach a license to code or ideas posted on CodeProject or anywhere else.
A) If a rule can't be enforced why make it?
B) There will always be people who will violate a rule.
C) Would you attend a college/seminar/whatever that said you couldn't use what was said?
But to each his own.
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PIEBALDconsult wrote: A) If a rule can't be enforced why make it?
Some restrictions protect the author.
PIEBALDconsult wrote: B) There will always be people who will violate a rule.
And? I still lock my car even though auto theives are around.
PIEBALDconsult wrote: C) Would you attend a college/seminar/whatever that said you couldn't use what was said?
No, but such things are usually paid for.
Peace!
-=- James Please rate this message - let me know if I helped or not!<HR>If you think it costs a lot to do it right, just wait until you find out how much it costs to do it wrong!
Avoid driving a vehicle taller than you and remember that Professional Driver on Closed Course does not mean your Dumb Ass on a Public Road!
See DeleteFXPFiles
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I agree - it seems to me to be against the spirit of Codeproject to allow restrictive licences on code examplers that are published here. I really hate finding I can't reuse even a few lines of code out of an example because it's GPL'd or something like that. I was under the impression that there was a default BCD like licence though (i.e. any use provided copyright statements stay intact in the source and you don't misrepresent the origens of the code).
I also agree that it is a different situation when an article provides a complete and useful application - I can see justification for a licence such as GPL or a restriction on commercial reuse in that case.
Niall.
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If the Lord God Almighty had consulted me before embarking upon the Creation, I would have recommended something simpler.
-- Alfonso the Wise, 13th Century King of Castile.
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Don't confuse patents and copyright. If the author has placed a restrictive license on the software, you can't just copy it verbatim. It does not however prohibit you from reading the article and code, and make use of the ideas within. Only patents offer that kind of protection.
--
Made From Meat By-Products
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I agree, but there is open talk here of the best way to sue someone who uses something from an article with a non-commercial use license. Whether it will win or not it's still a risk and something coporations are extremely averse to.
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I think:
* articles posted here must not be protected by patents
* source code licenses should be non-intrusive
The patents argument is self explanatory. That is a big threat to any company in this day and age.
By non-intrusive source code licenses I mean licenses that:
1) does not affect your own code (such as GPL)
2) does not stipulate distribution (binary only)
3) does not require you to publish derivative works
I do think however that any author should have the right to protect his and his work's name. For instance, suppose someone posts an article about an application here, together with its source code. The code is free to use in any way you'd like. In such cases, I think it's quite alright if the author adds the following license clause "publish the work, or derivative work, in any way you'd like, but not with my name or my application's name".
I also think it's quite alright if the author requires you to retain his copyright notices in the source code.
By requiring authors NOT to use any kind of licenses on their works, there would be less real articles here, and more "How print numbers in ASP ,please hlep!!" type of articles. I think Chris's "fair license clause" should be a bit more precise.
Anyway, you do not have to worry about being caught "stealing code", unless you've actually done so! In any civilized society, the burden of proof is on the plaintiff, not the defendent. If you haven't violated any license agreements, you have nothing to worry about.
--
Simulcast on Crazy People's Fillings
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I like the idea of sharing ideas on Code Project however I get grumpy when I find CP submissions copied and pasted into project without referencing who wrote it. When I was consulting I would find this from time to time and it is just not right. Someone finds the code they need on CP and pastes/references into their project and remove the authors name so it looks like their code. If someone goes to the trouble of building the code they should get the credit.
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At the very least, as well as a thank you in the docs.
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