Algorithms

Slacker00727-Apr-12 0:40

Slacker007

27-Apr-12 0:40

Roger Wright wrote:
I suspect that you have far more to fear from the manholes on your street than the desktop in your office.

"the meat from that butcher is just the dogs danglies, absolutely amazing cuts of beef." - DaveAuld (2011)
"No, that is just the earthly manifestation of the Great God Retardon." - Nagy Vilmos (2011)
"It is the celestial scrotum of good luck!" - Nagy Vilmos (2011)
"But you probably have the smoothest scrotum of any grown man" - Pete O'Hanlon (2012)

Luc Pattyn27-Apr-12 2:11

Luc Pattyn

27-Apr-12 2:11

Roger Wright wrote:
you have far more to fear from the manholes on your street than the desktop in your office.

I have been told they hide bees sometimes.

Smile | :)

Luc Pattyn [My Articles] Nil Volentibus Arduum

harold aptroot26-Apr-12 9:47

harold aptroot

26-Apr-12 9:47

You would need to simulate an accurate environment and accurate interaction with it as well (without a "rest" there cannot be a self/rest separation, so it cannot become aware of it either). Then, by the emulation theorem, it is impossible for the simulated human to notice any difference between his world and the real world - in other words, the simulated world is as real to him as this world is to us. At the same time, we cannot tell whether we live in such a world or not, nor if we do, to what extend the universe is actually simulated (that which we cannot observe in any way does not need to exist - we couldn't tell the difference anyway), nor whether anyone besides me* is "fully simulated" - perhaps only their observable behaviour is simulated. It has been suggested that maybe I* am the computer, simulating everything, including myself*.
* "you" are not real** in that theory, but you could (if you have a simulated mind, not just simulated behaviour***) be thinking the same thing, so "me" refers to "anyone capable of thought", which might be anyone or just me, I have no way to tell the difference.
** just what "real" means in that context isn't very clear either. To quote Morpheus: the mind makes it real.
*** then again, maybe "simulated behaviour" is what a "mind" really is.

It might seem as though you'd need a pretty fast computer to run such a simulation, but you don't. All the speed of simulation affects is how slow the time runs in the simulation compared to outside it, but since "outside time" can not be measured from inside the simulation, that has no real effect. It does mean that at present you couldn't simulate quickly enough to perform a useful experiment. Also, the storage requirements would be gigantic, and that makes such an experiment impossible for the foreseeable future.

BupeChombaDerrick26-Apr-12 11:26

26-Apr-12 11:26

Very impressive insight.

craig spanza26-Apr-12 10:48

craig spanza

26-Apr-12 10:48

I do not think that even a human brain can emulate another human brain. I know I cannot experience someone else's 'self awareness'.

It's not how I would approach machine intelligence.

evolve->grow->nurture->hope it'll be friendly

BupeChombaDerrick26-Apr-12 11:29

26-Apr-12 11:29

I think self aware is a property of computations, so anything is possible.

greldak26-Apr-12 21:51

greldak

26-Apr-12 21:51

Many programs today are indeed self aware inasmuch as they monitor their own state - generally they also take some action should that state change under specific circumstances, however that action is predetermined.

This however does not in any way make them intelligent for that they would need to independently generate the new/updated algorithms to determine what action needs to be taken and understand why. Even the most advanced neural nets are nowhere near this level of complexity. Will they become so someday - probably - will it be soon - probably not.

greatM26-Apr-12 22:23

26-Apr-12 22:23

r v self aware?

manoj sharma
09313603665
manoj.great@yahoo.com

BupeChombaDerrick27-Apr-12 11:26

27-Apr-12 11:26

yes

Slacker00727-Apr-12 1:05

Slacker007

27-Apr-12 1:05

craig spanza wrote:
I do not think that even a human brain can emulate another human brain. I know I cannot experience someone else's 'self awareness'.

well said.

Luc Pattyn26-Apr-12 11:13

Luc Pattyn

26-Apr-12 11:13

of course not. The simulated brain will be self-aware, not the simulating program.

Smile | :)

Luc Pattyn [My Articles] Nil Volentibus Arduum

BupeChombaDerrick26-Apr-12 11:31

26-Apr-12 11:31

I like that, not the program but the simulated brain.

greatM26-Apr-12 21:48

26-Apr-12 21:48

are humans self aware ?

manoj sharma
09313603665
manoj.great@yahoo.com

BupeChombaDerrick27-Apr-12 1:40

27-Apr-12 1:40

Yeah humans are self aware, why do you think they are not?

greatM27-Apr-12 1:58

27-Apr-12 1:58

if v r self aware then what is our purpose for being here?

every program has a purpose.

a beautiful signature

BupeChombaDerrick27-Apr-12 3:48

27-Apr-12 3:48

I think my purpose is to live as long as possible, leave a good legacy behind and enjoy life to the fullest or and reproduce Laugh | :laugh:

so does having a purpose make one self aware?

greatM27-Apr-12 17:32

27-Apr-12 17:32

this purpose is chosen by self.
which criteria decides purpose for ai?

a beautiful signature

BupeChombaDerrick28-Apr-12 1:52

28-Apr-12 1:52

chosen by default, every being is designed to reproduce, leave a good legacy and be happy

Luc Pattyn27-Apr-12 1:41

Luc Pattyn

27-Apr-12 1:41

Yes, most of them are. One probably needs to be to ask such question.

Smile | :)

Luc Pattyn [My Articles] Nil Volentibus Arduum

R. Giskard Reventlov26-Apr-12 12:02

R. Giskard Reventlov

26-Apr-12 12:02

No.

"If you think it's expensive to hire a professional to do the job, wait until you hire an amateur." Red Adair.
nils illegitimus carborundum

me, me, me

BupeChombaDerrick26-Apr-12 13:05

26-Apr-12 13:05

so why no? i think at least the simulated brain would be self aware, don't you think?

ii_noname_ii26-Apr-12 20:27

ii_noname_ii

26-Apr-12 20:27

Are you self aware?
OR is it just an illusion caused by all these signals wizzing around in that big chunk of meat in your skull? :P
Is an ant self aware? A fish? A human?

BupeChombaDerrick27-Apr-12 1:43

27-Apr-12 1:43

I think any living thing is self aware, i think anything with short term memory that can keep track of its actions or learn from them is aware of it's existence.

bbirajdar26-Apr-12 21:16

bbirajdar

26-Apr-12 21:16

Nice insight

Humans are self aware because of the senses and the way how the brain analyses the perceptions received.

If the robots are fitted with the necessary sensors and the programs to analyse them and re-program themselves according to the sensory data received,then we will be no longer away from self-aware programs and robots.

modified 27-Apr-12 9:47am.