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Agreed.
Software Zen: delete this;
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And that's either pure Win32 API or some ATL/WTL on top of it.
But seriously, who makes Windows desktop applications nowadays?
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*raises hand - as often as I can get away with.
".45 ACP - because shooting twice is just silly" - JSOP, 2010
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You can never have too much ammo - unless you're swimming, or on fire. - JSOP, 2010
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When you pry the gun from my cold dead hands, be careful - the barrel will be very hot. - JSOP, 2013
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This.
I've had to do a bit of web development, and I hated every minute of it with a passion. And I have exactly zero interest in writing mobile apps.
I'm just hoping I can draw this out until I'm ready to retire. Otherwise it'll be early retirement for me. It's not that you can't teach an old dog new tricks - but this old dog is looking at all the web development "frameworks" being re-invented every 3 weeks, and how they all integrate together (ahem), and is utterly unimpressed.
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dandy72 wrote: I'm just hoping I can draw this out until I'm ready to retire.
August 2023 for me - unless I win the lottery beforehand. 
I'm currently on a project that is ASP.net, comprised of several apps that have had over two dozen devs on it over the last 10 years - band-aids on band-aids, with an equally unstable database back end. The last time they updated the jquery and Telerik code was 2013, which is like 5 or 6 life-times in javascript land.
We're still on VS2015, too.
2023 can't get here fast enough...
".45 ACP - because shooting twice is just silly" - JSOP, 2010
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You can never have too much ammo - unless you're swimming, or on fire. - JSOP, 2010
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When you pry the gun from my cold dead hands, be careful - the barrel will be very hot. - JSOP, 2013
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When you already have it down to the month, years in advance, you know you're not in a good situation. Sorry to hear that John.
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I was told on wednesday that I have a bad attitude.
We've recently adapted scrum/agile processes, and I'm simply playing that game. They want me to write code against a poorly defined sprint item. In this case, they want a button to perform multiple actions selectible by the user. I told them how it should be implemented (a dropdown button), but they didn't agree, and wanted a popup form., so I asked for a precise and detailed mock-up of exactly what they wanted.
When they gave me a screenshot, it was a form with radio buttons and an OK button. In my response, I started with "As a developer who specializes in UI design (and has been doing so for over 40 years)...", and proceeded to tell them that if they want a pop-up form that presents radio buttons and an okay button, a drop-down button would be exactly the same thing, and would require one less click.
That's me having a bad attitude.
Screw 'em.
".45 ACP - because shooting twice is just silly" - JSOP, 2010
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You can never have too much ammo - unless you're swimming, or on fire. - JSOP, 2010
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When you pry the gun from my cold dead hands, be careful - the barrel will be very hot. - JSOP, 2013
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If they think "that's you having an attitude", they haven't seen you on a bad day and you're showing an incredible amount of restraint.
That sort of thing would irritate me to no end, and you're absolutely right; your approach is much less annoying, if nothing else but for the simple fact that it doesn't require as much dicking clicking around.
Your best revenge is perhaps to give them exactly what they want, and let them live with the stupid UI.
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The only problem with that is that if they decide they don't like it, I have to do it all over again. We honestly don't have the time for this kinda crap. 
".45 ACP - because shooting twice is just silly" - JSOP, 2010
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You can never have too much ammo - unless you're swimming, or on fire. - JSOP, 2010
-----
When you pry the gun from my cold dead hands, be careful - the barrel will be very hot. - JSOP, 2013
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Who makes desktop applications?
All the guys who help the office workers do their job.
Okay, these are no cool mobile apps, no fancy graphics (hopefully), you won't get praise for your work, but sometimes a "thank you".
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Over 23 years of development experience and all I have ever worked on is Windows Desktop applications. It was only this year that I actually worked on a application that had a Javascript/MVC UI. I also picked Winforms since WPF was not listed.
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We have a WinForms desktop application that supports a critical electronic warfare mission for the US Air Force. Would be nearly impossible to do via a web app with the amount of data we cache and the number of multiple, interactive windows we have open at once. Works like a champ and has been for 15+ years. It keeps growing in scope all the time.
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Winforms.
Now long ago, there was a time with MFC with WatCom C/C++, and before that, MSDOS 6.1 w/QuickC, and before that PCDOS 3 and MassComp Fortran. Someone's room-sized IBM-something used Fortran 4 (punch cards).
Perhaps the missing answer, this time, is the great arbitrator (decision maker): "Show Me the Money".
| Ravings en masse^ |
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| "The difference between genius and stupidity is that genius has its limits." - Albert Einstein | | "If you are searching for perfection in others, then you seek disappointment. If you seek perfection in yourself, then you will find failure." - Balboos HaGadol Mar 2010 |
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Most of my C or C++ Windows code is written directly to the Win32 API. I find it easier to use than many of the frameworks that purportedly package the API for you. If I could find a really thin layer which does not force the usage of spurious operator overloads (e.g. enlarging a rectangle with the += operator  ), I might consider using it for C++.
If forced to use a framework, I use WinForms.
Freedom is the freedom to say that two plus two make four. If that is granted, all else follows.
-- 6079 Smith W.
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MFC is a pretty good thin wrapper over the win32 api
#SupportHeForShe
Government can give you nothing but what it takes from somebody else. A government big enough to give you everything you want is big enough to take everything you've got, including your freedom.-Ezra Taft Benson
You must accept 1 of 2 basic premises: Either we are alone in the universe or we are not alone. Either way, the implications are staggering!-Wernher von Braun
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Interesting - I chose WinForms too, because it is (for me) the most easy and efficient way to build things.
I don't like WPF and I am not a web guy, so it's the only thing left for me.
Pure Windows Desktop apps lost most of its value, the demand is low, I see them only developed company-internal for some propietary functions only this one company needs.
Most other things happen in browsers today.
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Mike Barthold wrote: the demand is low, I see them only developed company-internal for some propietary functions only this one company needs.
How about for interfacing with hardware, like scanners, scales, specialized printer (like Zebra label printers)... No way doing that in a web application as far as I know.
Lots of industries still use those.
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A client side REST service will do it. Not nice but possible.
It does not solve my Problem, but it answers my question
Chemists have exactly one rule: there are only exceptions
modified 19-Jan-21 21:04pm.
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yup, for some small cheat programm, WinForm is fast .. use it myself (like 1-2 tools a year)
but if it has to look nice, i allways use WPf, it just needs some time to get used to XAML. 
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Yep. xaml is the reason why I don't use wpf.
it's such a chaotic mess.
Never could get beyond that point.
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it's not that hard to make WinForms look like WPF, since the system allows you to overwrite the drawing of any control. honestly the last WinForm project I did only took me a few minutes to get the layout correct and tested, then spent about a day overriding the onPaint handler for theme aware clean looking UI.
Easy enough to build a library of these things and extend some of the controls.
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I buy a new motherboard, CPU, RAM, etc.
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If Swing is included even though JavaFX replaces it, why isn't WPF included? I would choose WPF, so the closest is UWP and as I understand it WinUI is basically a fancy coat of paint on UWP with better WinRT support (correct me if I'm wrong, not a big UI guy).
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