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Luc Pattyn wrote: AFAIK rep points (for voting, for bookmarking, etc) are revoked when the object they were connected to gets deleted somehow
This makes sense
Luc Pattyn wrote: There is some logic in that, except when "voting for removal" gets awarded, as either the object will be removed (no net points earned), or it will not be removed because an insufficient number of people agree with removal, in which case the organizing member does get to keep his points (for being wrong)!
I think this is exactly the case. Reported 4 articles as plagiarized, got +20, they were deleted, -20. I agree that if voting for removal gives +5 points and then the article is published, I'd gladly take the -5 hit. But as you said when the article is deleted it would make sense if the points were kept.
Well, have to admit that the logic in what happened is still solid: 5 * (4 - 1 - 1 - 1 - 1) == 0 
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Ah, I see, you actually successfully reported 4 articles, you didn't mention that before.
Yeah, you should expect zero appreciation in the current system.
If you want to earn removal points, you should vote-for-removal on the highest quality items, those that aren't going to go away. 
Luc Pattyn [Forum Guidelines] [My Articles] Nil Volentibus Arduum
Please use <PRE> tags for code snippets, they preserve indentation, improve readability, and make me actually look at the code.
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You're right, that info was missing from the first post.
Luc Pattyn wrote: If you want to earn removal points, you should vote-for-removal on the highest quality items, those that aren't going to go away
That was hilarious
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Luc Pattyn wrote: Yeah, you should expect zero appreciation in the current system.
Incorrect. There was a bug which has been fixed.
You report, you get points, and you get to keep the points.
cheers,
Chris Maunder
The Code Project | Co-founder
Microsoft C++ MVP
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I can only describe what I learn from reading the FAQ and observing the system. And as Mika pointed out, it was a bit weird.
IMO when people help in improving the site's content, they should get the points, and get to keep them.
I now understand you see it that way too, and have fixed a bug.
I think you should mention it explicitly in the FAQ when points are conditional, i.e. when points (voting points, bookmarking points, ...) get removed once the related item gets removed; similar to you mentioning the vote weighting wherever it applies.
Luc Pattyn [Forum Guidelines] [My Articles] Nil Volentibus Arduum
Please use <PRE> tags for code snippets, they preserve indentation, improve readability, and make me actually look at the code.
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When an article is removed then all events associated with it go as well. The exception are reporting points, which should remain regardless of the status of the article.
There was a bug with this that I've just fixed.
cheers,
Chris Maunder
The Code Project | Co-founder
Microsoft C++ MVP
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Great thanks! Should the reduced points have been returned? Seems that it didn't happen.
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They will next time we do a full points recalc (maybe next weekend if things go well hardware-wise tomorrow with us). The great thing with our rep system is we can recreate from scratch so if there is a bug, the wrong value entered somewhere, or we add new rep types then we can retro actively correct them.
cheers,
Chris Maunder
The Code Project | Co-founder
Microsoft C++ MVP
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Great, that's a cool system
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Will you be adding author points for downloads, now that those counts are visible?
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you could get over 17K points overnight.
Luc Pattyn [Forum Guidelines] [My Articles] Nil Volentibus Arduum
Please use <PRE> tags for code snippets, they preserve indentation, improve readability, and make me actually look at the code.
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Back my play, and I'll slip you 100 points.
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I did, didn't you notice my other message below in this thread?
Eventually we want points for each and every key press and mouse click...
Luc Pattyn [Forum Guidelines] [My Articles] Nil Volentibus Arduum
Please use <PRE> tags for code snippets, they preserve indentation, improve readability, and make me actually look at the code.
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You left out mouse hovers.
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OK, those I can do.
cheers,
Chris Maunder
The Code Project | Co-founder
Microsoft C++ MVP
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cheers,
Chris Maunder
The Code Project | Co-founder
Microsoft C++ MVP
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May be in a long run, but for now, I see the download count values a lot incorrect. Probably because of some missing data as Chris told[^].
So, giving any rep points for now would be not fair overall and should only be done, once the data is correct and complete.
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This is something we've been debating internally. We don't offer points for viewing an article, and to do so would be fraught with potential for abuse, then fraught with issues dealing with the load to cut such abuse. The shear volume of views all articles get makes it an impractical option on top of that. For downloads we can mitigate some of these issues to an extent, but it would open up endless debate on what constitutes a download. Starting a download? Completing a download? What if I download at work and then at home? Does that give the author 2 download rep events? What if a file is downloaded in order for the reader to better understand the article and then the reader realises it's pure rubbish? They can downvote the article, or even report it, but they can't take back the download points they've given the author.
So for now, the short answer is no.
cheers,
Chris Maunder
The Code Project | Co-founder
Microsoft C++ MVP
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Unfortunate. I guess I see it as much more non-subjective than you do. The issues you mention seem to me to be trivial, so I assume there's something more to it than what's in your post.
The key point: downloading is an action, not an opinion. It's an action just like logging in; suppose a member logs in, doesn't like the site that day, so logs out. Do you take back the login?
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Logging in is something we as a site really want you to do. We're insecure and need your love. The points you get are, to coin a phrase, victimless points. Awarding points for downloads don't give the downloader points, they give the author points. That's where it becomes subjective. If you bookmark something you can un-bookmark it. Not so with a download.
Anyway, as I said: we've been debating this internally so let's see what we can come up with. I assume when you say "points" you mean that the author gets Author points and the downloader gets Organiser points? Similar to bookmarks?
cheers,
Chris Maunder
The Code Project | Co-founder
Microsoft C++ MVP
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Chris Maunder wrote: I assume when you say "points" you mean that the author gets Author points and the downloader gets Organiser points? Similar to bookmarks?
Yes, similar, but stronger; a bookmark is free for the bookmarker, but a download shows a much stronger interest in the article, and therefore is an indirect measure of how members perceive the article.
One might view an article out of curiosity; one might bookmark an article for some possible future use; but to download a file indicates a stronger interest and hence proves that the article has done its job well, of selling its message to the downloader, and by extension, of conveying the quality of the content here at CodeProject. I have downloaded from many articles here, but I have never downloaded anything from what I perceived as a crap article.
A higher download count means an article is drawing people because of its quality content and useful download; drawing more people here to view your ads and generate revenue for you. If you consider that to be subjective, then fine. To me it's logical, and download points - higher than for a bookmark - is a winner for both members and CodeProject.
One final point: a few weeks ago you commented that you wanted to do more to show appreciation to the authors here. To me, an article is its download, and vice versa. If you meant what you said, why are you hesitating about this?
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I'm hesitating on the details and on promising a due date  The principle is sound.
cheers,
Chris Maunder
The Code Project | Co-founder
Microsoft C++ MVP
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Chris Maunder wrote: I'm hesitating on the details
Here are some discussion points:
We don't offer points for viewing an article, and to do so would be fraught with potential for abuse
The author and downloader get points for each download (once per IP address). If the article is so valuable that it merits being downloaded at work and at home, points should be awarded accordingly. Remember, downloading takes time, and the downloader will be seeing all those juicy ads (contrast this with the one second it takes to bookmark).
What constitutes a download
Completing a download.
But they can't take back the download points they've given the author
The thing is, the article persuaded the reader to download; the article did its job, and should be rewarded accordingly. Again, the articles and their downloads are what bring professional developers to CodeProject; these are the people you're targeting with your ads. I routinely look at three or more articles and their downloads before I find what I'm looking for. Is it because the download was crap? No, it was because I had some special requirement, and it had nothing to do with the quality. The more articles CodeProject hosts, the better the chance a reader will find the "perfect" one, and the more time readers will spend on the site.
In summary, the download points reward not just the quality of the article, but the fact that it persuaded a reader to spend some time on site.
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and will the points you are going to give us:
1a. for an article being downloaded be Author points?
1b. and be weighted by some rep category of the downloader?
2a. and for downloading will they be Participation points?
2b. and be weighted by some rep category of the author?
PS: and will they survive if the article later gets removed? 
Luc Pattyn [Forum Guidelines] [My Articles] Nil Volentibus Arduum
Please use <PRE> tags for code snippets, they preserve indentation, improve readability, and make me actually look at the code.
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My opinion, which I know you cherish, is:
1a. yes
1b. no
2a. yes
2b. no
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